Author Topic: What is true?  (Read 16602 times)

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February 25, 2007, 04:13:42 PM
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Ephemeral

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What is true? Justify your answer.

February 25, 2007, 04:56:29 PM
Reply #1

Faijer

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What is true? This statement.

Prove me wrong. I dares ya!




*Note* prove me wrong, not tell me I'm wrong.
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February 25, 2007, 07:14:01 PM
Reply #2

Ephemeral

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What is true? This statement.

Prove me wrong. I dares ya!

*Note* prove me wrong, not tell me I'm wrong.

"What is true?" is a question, so it can't be true or false.

For example, "Honey, will you get the kids this morning?"

That statement can't be true or false. It's a question.



February 25, 2007, 10:57:16 PM
Reply #3

Tsumaru

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His answer was "This statement." which is a statement, not a question.

To answer your question....

What is true is truth, and truth is that which is in accordance with the actual state of what is and that which conforms to reality and fact.

Easy. My justification? The English language and the definition of the words true and truth.
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February 26, 2007, 12:31:13 AM
Reply #4

Philosopher

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correspondences theory of truth - A statement is true if it corresponds with reality. (what Tsu said)

coherences theory of truth - A statement is true if it coheres with other truths.

Convergence theory of truth - A statement is true if people agree on it.

Take your pick.




February 26, 2007, 01:08:21 AM
Reply #5

Tsumaru

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Convergence theory of truth - A statement is true if people agree on it.
I believe it's consensus theory of truth, not convergence.

And there is also the pragmatic theory of truth - A statement is true when acting upon it yields satisfactory practiacl results.
don't believe everything you read... especially if it comes from me.

February 26, 2007, 03:14:59 AM
Reply #6

kobok

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(For more on the theories of truth, click here.)

correspondences theory of truth - A statement is true if it corresponds with reality. (what Tsu said)

coherences theory of truth - A statement is true if it coheres with other truths.

Convergence theory of truth - A statement is true if people agree on it.   [should be consensus theory -kobok]

Take your pick.

If the question is, "What is truth?" then the answer is found in the correspondence theory.  But identifying that this is the case is a more challenging task, and it requires a systematic method for identifying what things are true, so that we can then observe that they do correspond to an objective reality.

The consensus theory is close to a method for doing this, but it has a few flaws.  First, differing groups often believe different things to be true, and experience shows that regardless of the strength of their convictions, one group ends up being wrong, and one group ends up being right.  Second, it is frequently the case that almost everyone is wrong.  Most revolutions in scientific knowledge begin this way, with observation surprising first the scientist, then everyone who hears about it, and then finally the rest of the world comes to understand what was observed.  Obviously the truth is not flowing from the consensus belief toward the measurement, but is flowing from the measurement toward the consensus understanding.

And this last point is the key to identifying truth.  Truth is not that which is believed, nor is truth necessarily that which is observed, for often truth seems to go for quite some time without being observed or known.  Truth is instead that which CAN be observed.
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February 26, 2007, 07:35:06 AM
Reply #7

Philosopher

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I've heard it called consensus theory, but I was taught convergence and the names just stuck in my mind. I've also heard of  pragmatic theory of truth and I know theres about half a dozen others but I've only studied the three I mentioned.

   

   

February 26, 2007, 03:42:52 PM
Reply #8

The Jacket

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What is truth?
Easy.
Truth is relative.
Every thing you know is wrong! Only what you dont know is true. Surely then the wisest man is he who knows nothing! By knowing nothing, clearly you know everything that isn't, and therefore everything that is.

February 26, 2007, 04:04:17 PM
Reply #9

Nereus

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What is truth?
Easy.
Truth is relative.
Now, now. Don't get trapped in the maze of relativism; you might not find your way out. I strongly suggest reading Philosopher and Kobok's above posts. If you're looking for a more.. Concrete explanation of truth, they sum it up very nicely.
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February 26, 2007, 04:10:03 PM
Reply #10

Shadowx089

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Errrrrrr, What are we going to start naming what is true/truth, trust, honesty, respect etc?

True or truth is what you make it to be,
Its just like how some people say their religion is true and not yours, and the opposite way around. The other thing that is true is when everyone agrees on something to be the way it is.

These are suppost to be basics.
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February 26, 2007, 04:16:19 PM
Reply #11

The Jacket

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Not that I disagree with them, but if you think about it right, it just strengthens relativism.

Just because its more concrete and easier to understand doesnt mean that it is right.  Acctually, whats right is rarely simple, and what is simple is rarely right.
Every thing you know is wrong! Only what you dont know is true. Surely then the wisest man is he who knows nothing! By knowing nothing, clearly you know everything that isn't, and therefore everything that is.

February 26, 2007, 05:58:05 PM
Reply #12

Nereus

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Not that I disagree with them, but if you think about it right, it just strengthens relativism.

Just because its more concrete and easier to understand doesnt mean that it is right.  Acctually, whats right is rarely simple, and what is simple is rarely right.

I personally disagree with you on that second paragraph, namely the final statement. But! I respect argument. :)
And I think I see what you're getting at, in concern to "streghtening relativism". Again, I may not agree, but you make your point clearly.

Fake Edit: I'm sad to not hear the original poster's thoughts on his own thread.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 06:09:40 PM by Nereus »
Sometimes my shadow leads, or it follows me, but we never seem to become one and the same.

February 26, 2007, 09:55:58 PM
Reply #13

Tsumaru

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People saying their religion is true doesn't strengthen relativism, it strengthens the fact that there is a distinct and diverse lack of knowledge as to what is or isn't truthful. I can say certain things are true as much as I want, but that doesn't make them true in terms of them being in accordance with reality and facts. There are a multitude of issues with relativism, not least of all the fact that it strengthens delusions. But quite simply, the best point I have is - what argument can someone put forth against there being an actual objective truth (ie - correspondence theory of truth)?


Oh, I also can't let this one go:
"Truth is relative" is a contradiction. Relativism means there are no absolutes. But "truth is relative" is stated as an absolute truth. Which means that not all truths are relative. Or if it is still a relative truth, that means that not all truths are relative and that absolutes can still exist.
don't believe everything you read... especially if it comes from me.

February 27, 2007, 06:10:51 AM
Reply #14

The Jacket

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Oh, I also can't let this one go:
"Truth is relative" is a contradiction. Relativism means there are no absolutes. But "truth is relative" is stated as an absolute truth. Which means that not all truths are relative. Or if it is still a relative truth, that means that not all truths are relative and that absolutes can still exist.

Quite right. 

Its just like making the rule "Every Rule has an Exception".  The rule acctually breaks itself, since every rule must have an exception (acording to that rule) then there can be no exception to that absolute rule.
Every thing you know is wrong! Only what you dont know is true. Surely then the wisest man is he who knows nothing! By knowing nothing, clearly you know everything that isn't, and therefore everything that is.