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Messages - Ekstatikos

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16
Akenu are you just going to ignore my question on the astral light:(

Frankly? Yes. Ekstatikos, I am not your teacher but let's just consider for a moment what you really want from me. The whole process of Magick could be summed up as the manipulation of Astral plane. You do stuff on the astral plane and physical plane than catches up, like a magnet, do you really think I will write about 500 words and this all is going to be explained within together with safety practices?

I didn't ask you to explain magic to me lol, I asked you to explain why you believe that the polarity of the astral light poses a practical problem. It's a specific question, and you're reluctance to provide a specific answer is either a sign of ignorance or laziness or both.

Dear Ekstatikos, read all my books, all my articles, all my experiments and all my projects and you might get a hint you have asked me about.

roflcopter

P.S. If you see gray between black and white, that gray is just the combination of black and white, so where does the black really ends and white begins?

I've no intention of arguing about cosmology with you

17
Akenu are you just going to ignore my question on the astral light:(

For authority, I rather trust an acupuncturist that not only runs her own school in Gainesville, but has extensive years of experience and licensure as well. The one student in school is nothing more than a student so he really is not much of an authority on the matter. As for the other one who is actually licensed, again, people within TDS have said how much better Kathleen is compared to her. Plus, TDS students would be biased in the acupuncture because when they do pick up the energy that is going wild, they will never assume it is the techniques. Kathleen on other hand, was concerned and an objective third party with the people who do the energetic techniques in the school. When you are picking up the same issues of people just from the school who do specific energetic techniques, it stands out. Again, the acupuncturist within TDS will be biased because they will never think it is the techniques due to being bias and not objective.

I said more than one authority would be needed. I trust your faith in the credentials of the authority you're mentioning - all I'm saying is that whatever we may believe about this or that authority's credentials, if it's just one against the other it's not convincing - you need an actual third party here.

Also they do rely on faith a lot. They have many times said “faith in masters” or even “believing in the techniques”. Some of the students have left with no results, again, TDS has a “hit or miss” thinking when it comes to the techniques taught. Previous thread has mentioned too my brother not getting well due to “lack of faith.” So again, quite ironic they label themselves as a Neoplatonic school.

You haven't addressed my argument at all, you've just restated your own position, without taking my critique of it into account at all apparently. As I said, faith does necessarily play a role in any spiritual path - but you're setting up a false dichotomy between faith and reason, and misrepresenting the mindset and philosophy of TDS in general. I'm happy to agree to disagree on this though, since the above has given me no reason to rescind my position that TDS relies much less on faith than you are trying to make it out to, and that rational thinking is given heavy emphasis in the school.

As for the hit or miss comment, this seems an odd critique of a school. Most schools I'm aware of, under any definition of school, have failure rates. Unless the failure rates are inordinately high (which in TDS they are not), this is not taken to reflect badly on the instructors or the curriculum. I suppose you will want say I am "victim blaming" now, but please don't play that card as it doesn't apply here. It's a simple observation about the way education works.

As for the funds, you again, are not a local. They eat out a lot and that money alone adds up. They eat out at expensive restaurants quite often. Veos even bought an expensive tea set that is well around hundreds. They also have the recent videogame systems like an Xbox One. I am sure you all know the price of this. They also criticize others who play videogames which is quite hypocritical considering how much they game as well. The justification of the use for this is they will give stories of teachers for example, one spiritual teacher who ate meat and the student said “why can you eat meat and we can’t?” The teacher then eats molten metal and said something along the lines of “only you can do what I can do.” Something similar to that matter. They site many stories like this to justify their dodgy actions. It does not take being a businessman to manage money. It is just personal financing. Something anybody can learn. So you might want to be reasonable and ask for some transparency. That is my suggestion.

I am also employed as a teacher. I'm sure my students would be shocked to find out that I sometimes waste the money they pay me on good food and entertainment. This is a petty complaint - you're grasping at straws.

“As far as I can tell the whole cult accusation is just a shorthand way for the tdssanctuary folks to sum up their individuals grievances under a rubric that rationalizes their underhanded tactics to themselves under the guise of some kind of righteous, justified vengeance.”
Danny and Carly aren’t the only ones in the blog as some ex students have posted as well. It isn’t a short hand way and we will write and article describing in detail how they are a cult with many examples. In our examples you will read things they have said before people then can see how a cult operates. We just want the truth of how they are, simple as that.

You seem to have missed the point here. But as I said, I'm not paying this issue any more attention - it deserves none.

This is based on the authority that Ramose and Veos are the surgeons of magic capable of teaching. They tend to have a hit or miss attitude in regards their techniques. Reason many students have no results is due to them not teaching techniques to make you energetically sensitive. They think the Olympic meditations will do this and as stated again, this is a hit or miss technique and can even be dangerous to individuals with nerve damage or overly emotional. Also to do magic one truly only needs meditation for the focused mind and offerings for spirits to aid you. I can assure the students in TDS could actually do it right now due to at least meditation. It is not as hard as TDS makes it out to be.

I've already dealt with the hit and miss comment. What techniques should TDS students be learning in order to become energetically sensitive then?

"It's not as hard as TDS makes it out to be" - I've heard this before. I think TDS does make magic harder than it can be because they have very high standards of what a magician should be.

18
I'm familiar with that passage. What is your point exactly?

It basically states that the astral body is formed by the help of the elements and the fluids (which is quite obvious anyway).

Where is the potential harm?

In the dual nature of both the elements and the electromagnetic fluid, when something is dual it means it's both positive and negative and as someone can do something right and got right effects, someone can also do something wrong and have bad side effects. The work with elements are the work with Astral Light, isn't really about working only with the positive (as it might appear), but actually balancing it on that sharp edge and if nothing else, Astral Light certainly isn't self-balancing as you have claimed.

As for the Ekstatikos claim that the Astral Light is subtle.... Subtle in this context just means it's not physical or that it is even less physical than elements. Now comes the interesting part, and from The Kybalion. Different planes of existence are used only for academic purposes, in reality these planes are so merged together nobody can easily say when one ends and other starts. That Astral Light is connected with something pretty much physical and if you affect the astral plane, you will affect the physical plane, as well, way more directly than with elements, simply because Astral plane as the lower part of Akasha (Bardon) is more than elements.

Just because the boundaries between things are blurred doesn't mean you can't tell them apart. Just because there are several shades of grey between black and white doesn't magically mean we can no longer recognize the difference between black, white and grey. That being said, I've no intention of arguing about cosmology with you  - I certainly didn't say anything to imply that affecting something on the astral plane won't have an effect on the physical - but thanks for pointing that out anyway.

You didn't answer my question though, so here it is again: Could you explain to us how one goes about working with the astral light in the properly 'balanced' fashion? I can't recall seeing it in Bardon...? Saying that the astral light can have a physical effect doesn't answer the question.

Moreover, I have to say, and perhaps this is due to my own relative ignorance on Bardon here (I'm no Bardon scholar), that I'm not sure you've shown how Bardon assigns polarity to the astral light. He certainly mentions the electric and magnetic fluid as being part of the metaphysical cause of the human soul/astral body in that passage, but I'm not seeing the connection to astral light - at least not explicitly? Am I missing something? Also, still no mention of "ob" vs "od". In any case I won't be surprised if Bardon says that the astral light has polarity (being electromagnetic as it is) - what I'm wondering is whether Bardon anywhere talks about this polarity being an issue that should be taken into account when working with the astral light?

These issues aside, what I'm most interested in is specifically how you propose one should work with the astral light in a proper, 'balanced' fashion. As far as I'm aware the astral light is essentially electromagnetic, which means that, though you would be correct in saying that it is polar, I can see no reason why one would necessarily need to be wary of which pole one is working with at any given time, since it's basic nature is electromagnetic and therefore essentially balanced, and by analogy and as IIHBuddy has repeatedly pointed out, naturally balancing in its effects. I suppose this would depend, to some small extent, to how it is being used, which is why I'm curious to know exactly what your do's and dont's would be in this regard. I would imagine that the method would have to be pretty extreme for the naturally stable bipolarity of the astral light to be 'thrown off' somehow as it were, and that this would cause some kind of imbalance. I just can't see how that would ever be possible for a beginning or even novice practitioner, and therefore how it would ever be truly necessary to be really careful not to do it.

19
Thanks Ekstatikos, sounds good. Are you a teacher or a student at TDS?

I've been a student since 2011 and have never operated in a teaching capacity at TDS.


Anyway Akenu the thing you mention about the polarity of astral light is interesting. Could you explain to us how one goes about working with the astral light in the properly 'balanced' fashion? I can't recall seeing it in Bardon (though admittedly it's been a while since last I read IIH) - could you be kind enough to reference a page number for me (a quick pdf search for the term "ob" turned up nothing in any of his 3 major works)?

As far as I'm aware, working with the astral light is not likely going to be a problem generally since the energy is very subtle, as opposed to Vital Force that can cause issues if used incorrectly (TDS does give instruction on things to avoid doing when working with the Vital Force, btw).

20
Ramose and Veos have told many students to avoid the thread. Rely on pure faith instead of reasoning which is indicative of a cult. Also they are no Jonestown but they definitely a lesser cult. Not only with the complete rip offs but never using it toward the goal of the temple. I am curious about why you do not ask for transparency of funds Esktatikos. Relying on "Faith in masters" I imagine. Again, The Divine Science is an ironic name. As I said earlier if you ask them about it, he will be very dodgy.

Haha ok Rodz you're making it increasingly difficult to be polite about this, but I really must insist that you stop deliberately misrepresenting my position, especially by pretending that you know anything about me. I can probably count the amount of times I've relied on faith alone in my adult life on one hand. I'm a postgraduate academic with a masters degree in philosophy pending. You can be damn sure that if I believe something, it is not based solely on "faith", but on a matrix of experience, intuition and reason. Also, the implied insult here that somehow the majority of TDS students rely mostly on faith is ludicrous (as is the implication that Ramose and Veos have told people to avoid this thread - advised is more accurate - some people just don't need this kind of negativity as it can derail their sincere efforts at spiritual progress a bit).

You do realize that the philosophical foundation of the school is Neoplatonic right? Do you have any idea how much emphasis that tradition puts on reason and thinking for oneself? From what I've seen, that spirit of rational inquiry permeates the philosophy of the school, and is encouraged at every opportunity. As one of many examples, take the Neoplatonic philosopher Ammonius who is reported by Olympiodorus to say that just because Plato claimed something does not mean it is necessarily true - it must be interpreted and independently defended by argument for it to hold - this is up to the individual philosopher. The same kind of attitude should be taken towards the teachings in TDS, and if someone does not take that approach, that is their own fault.  I'm not saying that faith does not play a role, in a spiritual path it necessarily must, but it does not play a role to the extent that you are trying to imply it does. More than that, the dichotomy you are setting up between faith and reason is a false one - I hope I don't need to explain why, we teach first year philosophy students to avoid that fallacy.

On the matter of transparency of funds, I personally feel no need to inquire about it since I'm not donating large sums in the hope that they are going towards the construction of a larger physical temple than the one TDS already has. The modest membership fees I pay are exactly that, membership fees. As far as I can tell the TDS staff aren't living large off of these fees. If more of the funds are going to the upkeep of the current temple than plans for a future one, that is fine by me. If the funds are being somewhat mismanaged because they are being managed by spiritual teachers and not businessmen that also doesn't bother me much.

As for the cult thing, it's silly and I'm done talking about it. As I've said, if you're able to actually prove that the TDS staff are just in it for themselves and are complete charlatans then I'll be right there denouncing them with you. Although I'd much more likely just move on, and be thankful for all the benefit I had somehow gotten from false teachers. But I don't think that's going to happen, mostly because every bit of evidence I have shows that it simply isn't true. As far as I can tell the whole cult accusation is just a shorthand way for the tdssanctuary folks to sum up their individuals grievances under a rubric that rationalizes their underhanded tactics to themselves under the guise of some kind of righteous, justified vengeance.

I am however happy to discuss certain points of contention. For example, the complaint that TDS doesn't teach magic. Well, this is kind of like an undergraduate med student complaining that they aren't getting to do any real surgery. You're not supposed to. For as long as I've been at TDS (+- 5 years) the prevailing and often emphasized philosophy has been that real magic requires a great deal of preparation, not only of the faculties and proficiencies required, but also of the character required. As this is a long, arduous and individual process, anyone expecting to be doing magic from the start was bound to be disappointed. That being said, much of what is taught in the early levels of TDS would certainly be appreciated as magical techniques by most observers. To illustrate this, I'll rattle off a couple of the things me and my peers have learnt up to this point (without giving too much away):

- Energetic meditations, accumulations and the like
- Consciousness and awareness -related techniques
- Shielding techniques
- Basic qigong routines
- Various energetic breathing techniques
- Imagination and concentration training
- About a dozen different applications of the vital force (potentially hundreds if the student applies them creatively)
- Divination
- Banishing and Consecration
- Worship related techniques
- Preparation for ritual work
- etc etc

The above are not all contained necessarily in the TDS curriculum, but most are; a dedicated student is given the opportunity to learn things outside of the standard curriculum - this is possible because of the individualized attention TDS provides its students. Also many workshops on individual subjects not in the standard curriculum take place throughout the year. If someone has received even half of the above-mentioned and still felt that they 'hadn't learnt any magic' then their expectations were wildly unrealistic, in my opinion.

Also Esktatikos I am going to talk to Justin's acupuncturist to give some documentation in to the damage the techniques cause. I rather trust her over the much less experienced acupuncture students in TDS. One person is an acupuncturist but even Veos has admittied the one Justin sees is far better than the one inside TDS.

Great. But unless it's more than one authority it'll just be one authority versus another.


Can't any other student or teacher from TDS actually come and tell us here how things actually are currently? I think it's important to hear both sides as things and people grow and change with time, so it would be ideal to see how the school is actually going for students and/or teachers as it seems TDS Sanctuary is not being objective now?

I'm sorry if i've offended anyone here by writing this, i know that TDS Sanctuary contributors have genuinely been hurt by TDS and i'm not trying to be insensitive or argumentative in any way, i just want to know currently how the actual school, TDS, is going and if they are improving things (hypothetically as i'm not sure because i'm no longer a student there) then shouldn't they be recommended to people then? Or do you feel that is no hope for improvement or something along these lines?

If i've said anything wrong here then please correct me but i just want to understand why it's still going on that's all and i think other future or prospective or even current students may want to know?

FreeDspirit the TDS teachers are busy enough without having to come on here and defend themselves. I think some students do it for the reasons Zeeke pointed out - for me it's mostly a mental exercise, and I honestly would feel bad if TDS was just being badmouthed without anyone giving the counterpoints. The TDS staff's stance on the matter seems to be basically "haters gonna hate" and not to worry about it - most spiritual organizations at some point or other have these kind of accusations thrown at them, sometimes much worse in fact. It comes with the territory, it seems. As for apologies and/or improvements, in most cases it seems that the TDS staff don't believe themselves to be guilty of any wrongdoing, and often it's a he-said she-said situation that doesn't lend itself to full resolution. As for improvements, the causes of this entire saga have certainly been taken into account by the teachers going forward, and some changes have been made to try to avoid this kind of thing in future. For example, as a school TDS has recently become much stricter in its requirements, and has decided to limit its numbers. Together, the result is a definite shift away from quantity and towards quality. This move would seem utterly bizarre if I believed that the TDS staff were trying to make as much money as possible. But if they are in fact trying to produce quality aspirants, it makes perfect sense.

21
https://tdssanctuary.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/ramose-daskalodos-leaves-tds-and-abandons-his-students/

Interesting read for sure.

Indeed. This is probably my favourite one so far, except maybe for Beka's which was an instant classic. Of course I'm also a big fan of the "Danny's Story" series. In fact I learn something valuable from every post over at tdssanctuary, it really is a treasure trove. I mean I don't really give two shits about the things said by people who know nothing about the school or were barely there before they couldn't take the hits anymore, but the peeks into the psychology of some of the older students who left is really educational.

On another note, we had a around a four hour chat with Ramose last night. Feeling so abandoned  :(

Funny how students who have been there for 5+ years and locals "know nothing about the school." Shows the psychological a state of you.

I think this is not the first time you've misrepresented my position, Rodz. Please take a moment to read my posts properly before you do that again. I made it clear to Akenu that I wasn't referring to long time students.

On the subject in general, I have nothing against people who have legitimate complaints against The Divine Science, or who feel that The Divine Science did some things wrong, and want to make it known. I also have no problem with people thinking that their techniques are sub-par or the like; if people try it and it doesn't work for them, or they find a better alternative, that's all well and good.

What I'm not convinced by is the depiction of Ramose and Veos as cartoonishly narcissistic villains running a nefarious cult, who need to be righteously hurt and taken down, apparently. Claims to the effect that Ramose has admitted to people that he's just in it for personal gain, for example, actually need some modicum of proof, otherwise it's on par with the ridiculous contents of that tabloidesque embarrassment of a post. If TDS has the characteristics of a cult, then tdssanctuary seems to have the characteristics of a witch-hunt - it seems like many of the people involved need to take the stance that TDS and it's staff are absolutely bad (unlikely) in order to justify their own actions, like getting info from moles for a smear campaign and the likes.

I can't help but agree with Kemetin that a healthier route would involve more objective critique (whether of conduct or techniques) and suggestions of alternatives, and less emotionally heated conjecture and mudslinging. Or simply moving on. That said, if tdssanctuary is actually able to conclusively show that Ramose and Veos are simply money grubbing charlatans, I'll be the first to join in in denouncing them. However, nothing I've experienced so far with The Divine Science, or read from tdssanctuary, has so far given me any solid reason to believe that that is in fact the case. To the contrary, along with the vast majority of TDS students, I've only benefited from my time with them, and have never felt cheated, tricked, manipulated, or taken advantage of in any way.

22
https://tdssanctuary.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/ramose-daskalodos-leaves-tds-and-abandons-his-students/

Interesting read for sure.

Indeed. This is probably my favourite one so far, except maybe for Beka's which was an instant classic. Of course I'm also a big fan of the "Danny's Story" series. In fact I learn something valuable from every post over at tdssanctuary, it really is a treasure trove. I mean I don't really give two shits about the things said by people who know nothing about the school or were barely there before they couldn't take the hits anymore, but the peeks into the psychology of some of the older students who left is really educational.

I don't remember anyone who knows nothing of the school posting at TDS sanctuary, I guess I should ask the site authors about this :-P

Quote
On another note, we had a around a four hour chat with Ramose last night. Feeling so abandoned  :(

Oh, you poor soul, hit smite on my name again, it will improve your mood :-*

Whoops sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant people who don't know much about the school that post on here and such. My mood is excellent on this auspicious day, no need to worry about me friend.

23
https://tdssanctuary.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/ramose-daskalodos-leaves-tds-and-abandons-his-students/

Interesting read for sure.

Indeed. This is probably my favourite one so far, except maybe for Beka's which was an instant classic. Of course I'm also a big fan of the "Danny's Story" series. In fact I learn something valuable from every post over at tdssanctuary, it really is a treasure trove. I mean I don't really give two shits about the things said by people who know nothing about the school or were barely there before they couldn't take the hits anymore, but the peeks into the psychology of some of the older students who left is really educational.

On another note, we had a around a four hour chat with Ramose last night. Feeling so abandoned  :(

24
Theories, Articles, and Philosophy / Re: Cigarette Magick
« on: January 19, 2016, 10:01:17 AM »
@Ekstatikos: When life gives you lemons... ;-). Important skill is to use everything (including your disadvantages) as your advantage. So, if you are already killing yourself with the smoking, at least use it somehow.

Agreed on that, but still it's a rationalization of a bad habit, and may counteract attempts at quitting to some extent. If you're not trying to quit though, it makes sense, and I get your point ^^ Anyway this probably isn't the place to discuss the best methods of quitting smoking lol.

25
Theories, Articles, and Philosophy / Re: Cigarette Magick
« on: January 19, 2016, 02:52:16 AM »
Stress oriented
If cigarettes are actually good in something, it's a stress relief. Cigarettes can get you in the right mood, get you rid of stress and help you concentrate.

Nope. The only stress they relieve is the gnaw of nicotine addiction, which they put there in the first place. If you are addicted to nicotine you are always slightly stressed (more so than a non-smoker), and this is briefly (but never entirely) quelled by getting a nicotine fix, hence the illusion of stress relief.


For that quick fix
Whether you want to improve your health, get rid of a headache, or maybe get some money, a sigil inscribed on the cigarette can do real wonders, just make sure you keep focused on your goal while something the aforementioned sigil enhanced cigarette. You can actually use one and the same symbol for all cigarettes in the package, making your goal more likely to come true after the whole packet was taken care of (not at once). You can use this method to e.g. help you to quit smoking.

That might be the weirdest thing I've ever read. Just to make clear why:

...you want to improve your health... the cigarette can do real wonders... You can actually use... all cigarettes in the package... to e.g. help you to quit smoking.

LOLWUT


Anyway, you have the disclaimer so yeah, I just thought the irony in that one paragraph was funny, whether it actually works or not.

26
Main Hall / Re: Visualized Meditation
« on: January 08, 2016, 02:20:01 AM »
Sounds like a hypnagogic state.

27
Just popping back in for a moment, then I'll go back to just lurking this thread.

@Sadrielle: On the TDS site there is a claim that all students will get to develop clairvoyance, clairaudience and clairsentience to get an objective proof and not be distracted anymore on their spiritual paths. I have also asked about that one and didn't get a single "yes" and I think this claim was a reason to join for many.

I missed that this was never addressed, so good point Akenu. The answer is "yes", many students have had success with developing these faculties, including one I know in person, whose success I could verify for myself (not saying anything more or too specific about my own achievements here; Law of Silence). Also lucid dreaming. Astral projection training is introduced late in the TDS curriculum, as the teachers' philosophy on the matter has always been that  a lot of development and training needs to be done first in order for it to be useful and effective. You may disagree with this, but that is their philosophy. That being said, there are people who have gone through the required training and are doing it. I'm not sure how useful me saying this is, since of course no one needs to believe it simply on my word, but there it is; Akenu's burning question has been answered. In any case, none of these things are sought for their own sake - in TDS they are a means to an end, the end being liberation. This is what TDS is all about really, using magic as a means to achieve enlightenment. If that's not for you, or if you think that's dumb, then don't do it. Simple.

One more thing. It's perfectly fine for some people to pursue enlightenment as it is outlined in many traditions (with overlapping or close to identical definitions), and it's equally fine for some people to say that it's useless and that magic can be pursued for simply practical reasons. This is a matter of opinion that won't be resolved by any argument. We are all free to pursue the goals we feel are important - trying to convince each other that each others goals are not worthwhile is an exercise in pointlessness. As much as I might believe skill in practical magic on it's own is not as worthwhile a goal as personal liberation, I won't try to convince others that that is in fact the case. Not anymore anyway. It's like an engineer and an artist arguing about whose career is more important - just opinions and personal perspectives, nothing more. Both mysticism and magic have their place, and I think ideally it's better to praise both for what they specifically bring to the field, or even better, see where they can meaningfully enrich each other.

Enjoying the thread, going back to lurking now.

28
Projection / Re: What is the best book for beginnners?
« on: November 26, 2015, 11:27:50 PM »
I posted my first draft of it here a year ago. Everyone just ignored it. lol The download link I posted above is for the latest PDF version. I also had Araignee lift my "must be 7 days old to post links" limit over on AL, and it's in the Tutorial forum over there now too.  :)

You should write more Shinichi, I'm sure others besides me are curious about how you got to the point you are now, and the success you're having on your path.

29
Magick / Re: The Mechanics of Worship
« on: November 24, 2015, 11:28:32 AM »
Ekstatikos, I've been meaning to get a spiritual reading done with Veos for a while now, which is the astrologer I assume you're talking about, but homelessness got in the way. I'll take to it either December or January. Out of curiosity, do you know if Veos is versed in the worship of Dasha Mahavidyas?

I'm not sure, you'd have to ask him yourself.

Is the Indian concept of an Ishta Devata related to the Neoplatonic concept of Seira - that each soul belongs to the train of a particular god?

I'm sure a comparison could be drawn - though the concept of Seira has a few different meanings in Neoplatonism, so it isn't limited to that particular idea.

How would one go about inviting an attendant of a chosen deity to reside within a picture/statue?

Statues are generally better for this, as one can pour oblations over them, which has been known to attract attendants if done with the proper sincerity and respect. Also I'd have to say it depends on the deity and religion involved, some require more traditional formalized rituals of worship, while others, no longer having very active worshipping communities, are less stringent. It is important to understand that these kinds of requirements don't matter to the actual deity, but can matter greatly to the attendants, so in the case of a still widely religiously worshipped deity, it can be important to at least make some effort to follow traditional methods. That being said, I can't say that I've learnt any of these rituals myself (besides some simple rituals of oblation I learnt in TDS, that are relatively effective for attracting an attendant, and some other fun things), but it is something you could learn from a proper teacher, once you have an idea of what your own personal deity may be. Of course, it's also perfectly effective, often more so for people inclined to it, to simply worship divinity in it's ultimate 'formless' aspect. For this, a Shiva Lingam or Orphic Egg works well. In any case, it's a good idea if you want to start building a connection to divinity while you are still figuring out which forms really resonate with you.

30
@Ekstatikos: The funny thing being that I was part of the school. If you remember I was "expelled" from school and my account was erased after I took a part in the Prophecy&Veos thread or whatever that thread was named.

If would also be nice of you if you actually answered instead of sending a link to something that
A) I have read about 100 times already
B) Doesn't answer my question at all.

Or am I supposed to believe that everything everyone ever get from TDS were dreams, random palmistry and tarot readings and a buzzing feeling? Come on, Ekstatikos, there must be at least one siddhi worth (and available for) sharing.

As usual, very entertaining. I'm not biting though.

I'm bowing out here, God Bless.

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