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Messages - Smiffy

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Main Hall / Re: "God's going to get you!!!"
« on: January 30, 2009, 06:24:41 PM »
ok cool. it's all just a misunderstanding or something. Let's get back to debating the matter at hand. I think it was something about religion and repercussions to our actions or something.
either way i'm off to bed. Play nice people  :P

*Sleepy Cow :cow: *

Main Hall / Re: "God's going to get you!!!"
« on: January 30, 2009, 06:19:37 PM »
*throws some Chill Out Cows out there :cow:*
Come on guys. no more arguing. Debating yes. Arguing no.

anyway i think the reason for satanism being brought into the topic wasn't to try opress or whatever, but to draw attention to the fact that other religions can be a bit "strange" or whatever (curse the limitations of the english language). I think was sort of to defend christianity in a way by showing that other religions also have their off points.

Heck i could probably bring up the Jihad thing (forgot what religion it's from. It's Islamic or something like that. I haven;t looked at religions in a while). The point is some religions do have things like religiously justified war (christians had the crusades, muslims had their own crusade type thing into europe at one point, etc). The point i'm trying to make is that yes. religion can be used to justify some odd stuff (well a lot of it more than just odd, but i like that word).
actually i'm not sure if that's the point i;m meant to be making. My thoughts are rambling about a lot. I guess perhaps there's more to what peopel say than just the context (if that line makes any sense*

*Understanding Cow :cow: *

Main Hall / Re: How did YOU find Veritas?
« on: January 30, 2009, 05:52:39 PM »
I first found it back in the days of TUS (i think it was). Hell i can remember when we used to have those karate belt things next to our name to show who posts too much.
*brews up some Bleaer for the other oldies*

hehe remember when Arck changed the auto spell correcting thing to change all "arch"s in posts to "arck"s. that was hilarious. research became researck, etc.
*Nostalgia Cow  :cow: *

Main Hall / Re: "God's going to get you!!!"
« on: January 30, 2009, 05:44:53 PM »
oh and while we're on the topic of it, let's look at satanism for a bit. I think there's 2 different types

There's the "lets be evil, worship satan as a source of evil, spread evil and generally be rather not nice people" type of satanism, which to be honest i do not understand.

Then there's the "we're expressing our own freedom and free wil, recognising satan/lucifer as an entity representing freedom and free will etc, and we're not doing it to be emo/evil/different/whatever but because we believe in our own freeness"

Or something liek that. it's been years since i;ve read up on satanism. I've probably left out bits here and there but ah well. I encourage people to look it up if they want. Just keep an open mind.

Now i do agree. Racism/prejudice will get everyone nowhere. I guess we all have to individually try and make sure to at least try to look at things with an open mind :cow:

Main Hall / Re: "God's going to get you!!!"
« on: January 30, 2009, 05:38:53 PM »
ok  people. time out XD
*Hands out some Calming Cows  :cow: *

Let's all just take a step back and look at things again as if we could have a fresh point of view.  we've meandered off topic a bit and I for one would like to get back to it.

Now the overall issue i think (can't remember entirely, i lost track of it during the arguing) was that crhistainity was or did something or other. Actually i've really forgotten the issue and can't really be bothered to go back and look it up.

Anyways, christianity 9and the christian bible) has it's good points and bad points. It's "the word of God, written by man" to sum it up accurately. The meaning behind stuff is what's important. there's 2 things in there, said by Jesus that is (in my opinion) the only thing that matters:
Love God, and love your neighbour (aka fellow man) as you love yourself.
That at it's core is what christianity is meant to be. Sadly other parts of the bile get taken too literally at times or whatever and in the hands of fundamentals (with enough social/politiacl power) some rather icky things can happen (like the burning times, crusades, etc).

*Peace Cow :cow: *

well i'm back from work. Now to commence the rambling:

In general some groups will be predisposed for or against other groups due to upbringing or history. Christians burnt "witches" (and probably a lot of innocent people too) because they learnt from the bible that such stuff was "bad" (though i'll go into the morality of magic vs the bible later on, sinceit's an interesting subject). This has caused a lot of tension between pagans and christians over time. I'm hopefull that in time things will ease up to the point where it won't matter, but it will require work.

Now i understand racism and that it's actually pretty stupid. I'm south african and grew up in a time when the apartheid had just been abolished (i think i was 2 or 3 at the time. I remember seeing voting posters for nelson mandela). Despite the fact that the apartheid is over with racism (or at least the predisposition against eachother) still exists in some ways. I'm hoping that one day it will stop, but it's far easier to condemn than to forgive.

A lot of prejudice is probably due to a simple lack of knowledge. The bible says that magic is bad because it doesn;t come from God (in an oversimplified sense. it's a bit more complex than that since i think there were a few systems that did come from god, but the issue got a bit blurry during translations), which is how christians got predisposed against pagans etc. There are a couple things that were strictly forbidden (necromancy for one, since using the dead to reveal the future was a big no no in those days. Actually most forms of divination were considered bad unless God was involved in it somehow).

Now i'm not trying to defend christianity, but rather explain why certain unpleasant things happened in the past. Understanding is the perhaps the first step towards getting all this irritating tension out of the way. Admitedly there will always be fundamental people who believe their way is the best, but i'm hoping that they'll be the minority eventually.
Now i'm not really trying to sound like Martin Luthor King, but i do have a dream that one day we'll be able to openly be exctly who we are without whatever religious group trying to make us feel as if we're doing the wrong thing or walking the wrong path. Heck my family doesn't even know about my magical studies. I know what they're reactions will be (because despite all else christians can be fairly predictable :rolleyes: ). There's only a handful f people who know me (aside from veritas of course) that know i'm a chaos mage.

Now i do really want religious/spiritual/theological equality. I want to be able to be myself in my entireity, not just facets of myself to different people. Perhaps that's why i like the dead so much. They don't care. Anyway i don;t think that i'll live to see the sort of equality i'd like in my lifetime, but i have hope (and a dream) that one day the equality will exist. Communities like Veritas fuel that hope. If we can make it work here, then one day it should be possible for it to work everywhere.

Anway that's my rambling done. Not sure if it all made much sense in the context of this topic (although that seems to ramble a bit too :P )
*hands out a Rambling Cow :cow: *

Magick / Re: Brag thread
« on: January 30, 2009, 10:48:42 AM »
Using TPS to avoid paying rent. it was back when i was a student and almost always short on cash.
(not exactly magic per se but rather psionics, but the magic stuff i don't really want to get into since it'd take too long to explain)

Some Christians would say, come to Christianity, you innocent little girl, you are into a bad path, yet pagans somehow respect the divinity in me as I in them, so I have had to deal with less disrespect in that community by far!

I too dislike the way pagans say "Those nasty Christians", which is ridiculous. The fundies have got to get over themselves and I'd be in a Christians' face telling it to them like it is too!

We're all human. we're allowed to be hypocrits :P
I'm usually fairly tolerant, yet even i can have my bigoted moments. I'm allowed to though. i'm christian (in a sense) and we're a rather hypocritcal lot (at least compared to other religions/paths).
Anyway i've got a bit more to say on the matter of religions and tolerance etc, but sadly i'm supposed to be getting ready for work so it'll have to be later.

Quote from: sekhmet
Its impossible to do good all the time. Someone may get jealous over something good someone does only because the person who has that trait making them jealous cannot empower them to feel otherwise. Even when someone is empowered however, they can take that gift someone gave to them & then back-stab or use that empowerment against the teacher. That is why knowing what karma you are attaching yourself to when you take on a student or take on a mentor is very important to your studies. One only has to glance at the wisdom of the Spiderman totem to see how absolute power can corrupt absolutely. There are tons of powerful, intense and very ancient souls around here. I'm not talking just old soul types found in the woo-woo metaphysical sense. I'm saying... we've all been connected through some kind of past life karma but found each other in the modern world through the Internets. Look around.

I'm possibly odd in the way that i don't believe in karma, the threefold rule thing or the other sorts of repercussions to using magick. Instead I'm more likely to not do something due to cause-effect than because it would be "morally" wrong. I prefer to do good things, because the overall effect is usually positive (sometime it isn't, which is what stems my disbelief in karma, etc).

Quote from: sekhmet
Its like, eh man, you can't control what I study! I don't care if you're like, God or the Universe! Are you my higher self or am I?
I agree completely. The choice is up to the practitioner. We have the right to make our own decisions. I don't like that certain topics are seen as wrong. I've been told by friends that the stuff I read up on is wrong. But what I see as wrong is not wanting to understand or learn about something just because parts of it might have questionable "morality".
At the core I guess it's because we humans fear what we don't understand. I don't like being afraid, so I try to understand as much as I can. That "curiosity", the drive for understanding, could possibly lead to my own destruction. But it's my choice. I've chosen to learn. We shouldn't let people take the choice from us based on their own beliefs.

And that's probably why I love veritas so much. The community doesn't do that. They'll advise against things which can be dangerous, but they leave the choice to us and they will give advice or help. While I don't believe in karma, I do believe that we are linked here in some way.

As for the necromancy question it'd depend on the spirit. If it's the spirit of a dead person you call into your circle then yes I suppose that's a form of necromancy. While the original meaning of necromancy was to divine the future using spirits of the departed I only see that as one part of what necromancy is. Sometimes it's nice to just talk to them and keep them company. Anyway i' getting a lttle off topic now.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I won't even pretend to fully understand the significance of that quote. I think there's more meaning to it than people give it credit for  :confused:

The Cafeteria / Re: Your last words
« on: January 25, 2009, 03:07:46 PM »
My obvious alternative last words are "THE GAME"
You bastard! I was winning too!

anyway mine would probably be something along the lines of:
It's gotta be the red wire.

I just got round to reading this. It's an interesting thread. I agree with you and i'll add my 2c on the matter. I'll probably ramble a bit too, but my mind is like that  :HA!:

There is no "bad" knowledge. There's bad applications for knowledge and power, but the knowledge/power isn't neccasarily the problem. As occultists we should have the responsibility (and the duty) to ourselves and those around us to know how far to go with (or how to apply) the knowledge we have.

For example i've made necromancy one of my areas of study. It has a bad reputation, and i acknowledge that mishandled it can be dangerous. But so can everything else. There's a lot of power out there for those of us not afraid to handle it, but how we handle it is up to us. I strive for balance. I seek to understand the dangerous/"forbidden". Just because something is forbidden doesn't neccasarily mean it's wrong for us to look into and research, and it also doesn't mean that we cannot adapt it to our own ends. I've used necromancy to temporarily "mesh" together a group of living souls in order to share their collective strength. I changed something designed to leach, steal and drain into something that aids the weaker members of the group. I could not have done that without having sought out something that is typically deemed as "wrong" or "bad".

That's not to say I always do good things with my knowledge. But it's up to me to interpret and use the knowledge gained from the understanding or "forbidden" practices in the way I feel is right to myself and right to those around me. I feel you understand it as well or you probably wouldn;t have brought up this topic.

Curse the limitations of language. I had a lot more to say, but couldn't convert my thought pattern into words to convey it. I just hope i managed to convey the jist of what i wanted to you.

*Passes out an Understanding Cow :cow:*

Hello and Goodbye / Re: Guess who's back
« on: January 25, 2009, 03:28:51 AM »
Hehe nice to get such a good welcome back. A lot of old names i remember. It's good to be back, although i'll probably just be lurking most of the time (since my laptop won't let me into the chat room).

^ ?Harvest Moon for SNES? ^
Not exactly. The oldies will understand the cow comments though. And Bleaer. We'd better still be using bleaer around here or i'll set Mr.Teethy on somebody :teethy:

Hello and Goodbye / Guess who's back
« on: January 24, 2009, 12:57:15 PM »
I'm back for a bit. Older, and slightly wiser. I've finally figured out the path i'll be walking down.
Looking forward to catching up with the rest of the oldies. Hopefully i'm still remembered

ps. I'll be taking back control of my cows too  :cow:

Hello and Goodbye / Re: Hey, I found this site cool.
« on: March 29, 2007, 05:31:53 AM »
Have a traditional welcoming cow.   :cow:
*stabs kobok through the eye with a stack of vibrant spoons*
*mutilates the corpse in a psychotic yet friendly manner*
Cow giving  is my domain

Main Hall / Re: My son...
« on: February 18, 2007, 02:43:18 PM »
i'm not really a baby person (or a child person for that matter), but congrats.
*rolls out some celabratory bleaer*
*starts with the celebrations*

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