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Messages - vobanack

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It's a good thing I learned to read upside down, lol. Threw me off at first, then remembered it was April 1st, lol... While I do agree with you in that it can bring them up to the teachers level, I also disagree with the act of teaching, at least within the occult. In my experience most people who are taught or who learn from a book written by a teacher generally fall into a singular way of thinking, which denies all other possibilities of understanding, then limiting their ability to understand, lol. The more "enlightened" of us know how to avoid this trap, but most can't or won't. We're finite beings and can only take in so much information. Say someone starts out disbelieving the occult, they then only think in terms to discredit it. Take that same person and throw in an event to change their minds, now believing the occult they think in terms to prove it. Throw in as many event as you want to change their mind as many times as you want and the result is the same, they only think a single way at any given time, which requires a loss in understanding. The alternative to this is to both believe and disbelieve, but then nothing is definable as there are no discerning(I apparently forgot how to use the word discerning, lol)  factors, "it just is", requiring a loss of understanding without the ability to interpret in that state. We're just screwed from the start, lol.

I don't think there needs to be any such trade off.  Communication done right definitely enhances understanding.  To do communication wrongly, you would simply need to be a mindless sheep and accept what an authority tells you without evaluation, or go along with group-think.  But to do communication correctly, you would consider and evaluate information from as many authorities as you can, so you can learn from the things they get right, and you would vigorously debate your own ideas and those of others so that you can enhance your reasoning and identify the flaws in your own ideas so that the remaining notions are more refined.

Provided that those involved are able to understand what is being communicated it certainly can help to better their understanding, but in order for them to understand what is being said it generally has to be communicated in communal terms or ways. I was focused on this communal aspect of conversation in that someone attempting to explain a new concept would lack a "common tongue" while explaining it, so they must over simplify it in order to bridge the gap between the new concept and the understanding of it by others, or at the least reference it indirectly, which leaves a lot of room for interpretation. This then trades off the maximum understanding of it in favor of communicating the idea.

The problem with being creative or inventive is that most people understand things based on their experiences, so when you offer something new it is generally looked down upon. If that's not discouraging enough, those who do give it a chance generally misinterpret it. There's nothing wrong with new, but if it's not explained in an old way most people will miss out on it. It's not that any one person is boring, typical, or mundane, but that we as a whole tend to be and that is what's required in order to communicate effectively. For example: I spent the first 18 years of my life being an individual, as much as that did for my ability to understand things it ultimately hurt my ability to communicate that understanding. So I've spent the last 5 years being part of the group and as much that has impacted my ability to understand it has greatly increased my ability to communicate. In short, there's a trade off between understanding and communication that must be taken into account. Of course I didn't really read every post in this thread, nor did I read any of the posts fully, I just got excited by what I did read and had to throw my two cents in, lol. And I think none of that is really what you were getting at, it kinda felt like you were just wanting more trail blazers in magic or something along those lines, but oh well....

Main Hall / Re: Church leadership
« on: January 11, 2015, 03:56:18 PM »
When it comes to priestly actitivity, personally, I would feel more comfortable with a priest/ess that was already part of the mundane community and has experiece with community members over someone that took a training course online. If you want to have it be a legitimate church, a strong connection and working format of a local chapter would show the passion and persistence it takes to head such an organizational body.

The option for an aspiring Kriophoros to pursue their training in person is always available, and is the preferred method of education. Room and board will also be provided as available, currently up to two aspiring Kriophoros may be reasonably accommodated.

Main Hall / Re: Church leadership
« on: January 11, 2015, 01:38:59 PM »
Are you sure an international forum is the best place to seek clergy?

While individuals in the U.S. are preferred, all are welcome to apply. There's no harm in appealing to a community of individuals who already hold an interest in such things and may reach out to other communities.

Main Hall / Church leadership
« on: January 11, 2015, 12:41:17 PM »
Oikos of Apollo is a pagan hermetic church seeking an individual interested in a role among our church leadership, we're currently seeking a Kriophoros (similar to an ordained priest) and a Kyrios (similar to a high priest). The Kriophoros would be responsible for the daily operations of a church, including sermons, solemnizing marriages, various rites/rituals, confessions, and retention and expansion of the congregation, among other responsibilities. The Kyrios would be responsible for the maintenance and acquisition of church property, training and ordaining new Kriophoros, along with continually training ordained Kriophoros, among other responsibilities.

There are only two prerequisites: 1. Complete an expedited course of study/internship to receive ordination . 2. A genuine interest in our faith.

Since the course is expedited the fees will be waived for the first five aspiring Kriophoros.

Magick / Re: Thoughts on Thought-Forms
« on: January 03, 2015, 09:43:04 PM »
So basically a thought-form is just an idea that takes root in the subconscious that influences your mind and body.

Pretty much, lol

Magick / Re: Thoughts on Thought-Forms
« on: January 03, 2015, 02:07:37 AM »
Wouldn't it be similar to a type of obsessive thought?

Yes and no, lol. Obsessive thought implies a lack of will, this is where it crosses beyond the use of magic and into insanity.

Something is a subconscious motivator that bends your awareness to a goal?

That is more along the lines of what is going on. With the aid of this thought-form you subconsciously take in and analyze all the aspects or the causes and their effects. It's basically a sub-program you set up to run tasks in the background (If you were computer, lol), the more power you give it, the better it will process these aspects and provide a higher probability of success.

Magick / Re: Voluntary spirit possession stories
« on: January 02, 2015, 10:34:11 PM »
Hi been awhile since I post a topic. Anyway I been studying on invocation and it's method and I want to hear all the magicians experience with this. What it feel like, what are the effects on your body, and what's the risk. I want to get all of your personals answers about this. p.s. what spirit should I first invoke


my advice is to go with Searcher's (i.e not to think about official invocation until you are past the IIH Steps, and know the smallest of details of an invocation and your will power is akin to a bolt of lightning).

In all honesty it boils down to what method of learning works best for you personally, do you like to play the tutorial level of a game first or do you like to jump right in and learn from experience? Both work equally well, but both require a different perspective on things. Personally I learned through experience more often than I learned from tutorials, lol. When I practiced invocation the first thing I tried was lust and it was a lot of fun, but it also felt like I wasn't entirely in control 100% of the time. Most notably the overwhelming urges and sensations made you want to stay that way for as long as possible. That's the danger of invocation, it can overwhelm you and trap you in a mindset.

Magick / Re: Where's the majikal leadership?
« on: January 02, 2015, 10:12:50 PM »
Personally the practice became depressing after a few realizations that lost it all the pizaz it had when I first set out to learn, lol. That combined with being unable to clearly explain what I was trying to say, pretty much made it pointless to stick around. So I took a year or two for myself :)

Magick / Re: Thoughts on Thought-Forms
« on: January 02, 2015, 09:54:27 PM »
Your thought-form went out and found the most receptive individual to manifest your will.

To my knowledge this is the only part where my opinion differs, but only in its literal sense. As you said the thought-form possesses you to put in applications until a place catches your interest. Once this place has your interest the same thought-form or one of its self generated subordinates will drive you to put most if not all your effort into getting hired by this one place, this determination then results in your being hired. Basically, it's entirely self contained.

Magick / The Kybalion
« on: January 02, 2015, 09:19:09 PM »
Just some quick notes after reading the kybalion for the first time in a few years, lol.

Chapter 1

The Hermetic Philosophy

“The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of understanding.” - The Kybalion.

This among other quotes is repeated a fair amount of times within the kybalion, and the majority of them break down to the same thing. You can think, read, or talk about a thing; but if you’re not ready to understand it, then you won’t. Even the most objective approach is bound to the limits of our subjective minds. This is more or less a matter of perspective, because we see what we want to see. However, this subjectivity is not without it’s uses; as we may work around our blind spots by exploring further into ourselves. In this sense a single thing may teach us any number of lessons offering newer and hopefully better understandings each time.

In the kybalion it is also mentioned that their ancient teachers warned against turning their philosophy into a creed, and stated this as a cause behind the fall of other ancient beliefs. The reasoning behind this being again that we are bound to the limitations of subjectivity, and because of this we each would claim that our understanding is the only understanding. These claims would then turn to closed mindedness, followed by attempts to overshadow the understanding of others until ours stood alone. In other words, this approach leads only to a path of self delusion and destruction, as we cling to what we think we know and block out any opposing view.

For example: The sky is blue, and yet it is not. In the first sense of color, it is just a word; and words mean only what we intend them to. I could say that the sky is purple and still be correct in that I intend the word purple to relate the same color as what we perceive blue to be. In the second sense of perception, the sky is only blue from the surface of our planet, yet eventually turns to the color of space as we go further out. To sum up, it only matters to us in so far as our understanding of what is intended; but there remains so much more beyond our original understanding to be discovered. This is why they warned against forming their philosophy into a creed, because it excludes other possibilities, which in turn prevents us from learning further.

Chapter 2

The Seven Hermetic Principles

1.The principle of mentalism states that all is mind, and introduces the concept of the All. It describes the All as spirit, unknowable, and undefinable. It then goes on to state that the universe is a mental creation of the all, subject to the laws of created things. This statement further supports our notion of perspective or the bounds of subjectivity, as life is a mental experience and takes its meaning from our ability to remember. We can choose to live a good or bad life regardless of the things that happen to us based on how we choose to respond to those things. This involves altering our perspective to be more accommodating towards either a positive outcome or a negative outcome, doing so would in effect give you the power to determine the way in which your life plays out by projecting and pursuing a mental creation of your future.

(Note: We learn how to react in different situations by perceiving the way in which others react to that same situation, this creates a reactive perspective in which we have no power over our lives. Therefore, the objective of occult practitioners in a quest for power would first need to be establishing an active perspective. This is done by simulating a situation and enforcing the desired reaction, thereby creating a fluctuating aspect in your life that may take hold and form a mindset, which may then expand into your perspective, followed by your perception. All of this resulting in a personality change and an increase in power over your personal life.)

Theories, Articles, and Philosophy / Re: Banana Bandit
« on: January 25, 2014, 09:19:05 PM »
For what purpose? And how are you planning to implement it?

Businesses and schools - The businesses provide funding to achieve these goals, they also serve to promote these goals in some way. One business would be video game development geared towards games involving this new culture. The schools provide education on this culture, which involves a heavy focus on creativity. Art, poetry, singing, dancing, and other forms of expression would be taught, as well as philosophy, ect...

A new language and culture - Bonding on a deeper level, a sense of belonging. Family.

Founding a new nation - To push beyond limitations.

The purpose is simple, people doubt too much. They think of themselves as incapable of rising to greatness and choose to dwell on what could have been. For me this is one of those things that I am afraid to try. I'm afraid of failing and I'm afraid of succeeding. I'm afraid of being ridiculed, and I'm afraid of becoming some ruthless or selfish tyrant. So I must rise beyond those fears and hopefully show others that they can do the same by accomplishing a seemingly impossible task.

As for implementing it, the plan is to collaborate with those willing to help in a chosen field. These things can't be accomplished by a single individual and as such should not be dictated by a single individual, however these things do require a common ground in order to remain coordinated, and that is my role for now. Once volunteers step forward, then we will discuss the best options for implementing their chosen field. It is a group effort beginning to end.

Theories, Articles, and Philosophy / Banana Bandit
« on: January 24, 2014, 11:29:08 PM »
When we think of gods, deities, egregores, ect... we as philosophers often imagine a divine entity with a will of its own, where a scientist often sees only simple cause and effect.

A ritual to bring about rain would include the sacrificing of animals to be burned as a gift to the gods of rain, in the hope of a blessing. The spiritualist sees this as a holy act in which gods are being appeased, where a scientist sees this as a natural occurrence. (I remember a day when still in school and we discussed how fires were good for forests in that they not only cleared dead wood, ect... but also caused rain and other effects to regrow new life.) The point to all of this is not to prove or disprove one side or the other, but rather to accept both aspects as representing the same idea.

Anyone who remembers me may recall something about the pillars or the dream theater. This is the essence of that idea, to take two opposing views and make them a whole. First by travelling to one side, then to the other side, and finally coming to a rest within the middle. This middle ground is the origin from which all possibilities are created and to understand a middle ground provides us with the opportunity to forge our own realities.

It is my goal in life to reinvent the wheel, because I would like to enjoy a great challenge. I have many aspirations and as a human can only achieve so much in the short time that life sees fit to bestow upon me, as such this requires help from like minded individuals. A few of these aspirations include establishing businesses and schools, crafting a new language and culture, founding a new nation, ect... If you feel any of these things stand out as a worthy challenge to you, then please don't hesitate to message me. You will be treated equally and with the respect deserved regardless of whether you're new to the occult or a veteran, as I place value on your potential (which is limitless in all of us) and not your past achievements.

Oh, and banana bandit is the name of my future pet monkey... Which reminds me, if you have any aspirations of your own it would be my pleasure to assist :)

Main Hall / Re: New Nation
« on: September 05, 2013, 04:44:10 PM »
It took me a second to figure out what you were saying (I had a long day at work, lol) but as far as I can figure you're talking about exchanging service for service, which is definitely a good idea so long as you have valuable skills like a mechanic or carpenter, ect... but it does limit what you're able to obtain if the person who has what you want doesn't want what you have, that's part of why I see money as an equalizer... On the other hand, you still have valuable skills to offer someone else who could then in exchange offer their skills to the mechanic in exchange for servicing your Mercedes benz. So even if the person who has what you want doesn't want what you have, they still might want something from someone else who might just want what you have. I like this system, it take some real effort to obtain goods and forces people to think if what they're getting is really worth the effort. It also forces people to learn valuable skills or be left without, lol.

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