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Messages - الظلام

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1
Magick / Re: New System
« on: October 15, 2018, 05:43:19 PM »
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I would think long and hard for years, and that is when I realized there were veils upon the human mind

I would agree, but what kind of veils do you speak of? No doubt humans are generally pretty nescient, especially regarding the spiritual or occult, but in this particular case, what do you refer to?

Anyways, it seems to me you know quite a bit about what you are talking about - however, your claim about others gaining such abilities so rapidly through your guidance is quite bold. Given your apparently reasonable amount of knowledge of the occult though, instead of being skeptical,  I will give you this advice - you need to test your system.
This will help you understand how your system may work with others. Especially because even if you truly are knowledgeable and your system is good, and it worked well for you, that does not necessarily mean it will be as fruitful for others - simply because not all spirits are equal.

Your spirit may be naturally talented, which is why when you came upon such knowledge, you were able to use it to advance yourself so well. Others, however, could be given all the knowledge the universe has to offer, but they would still need to grind through a large degree of practice before gaining any significant abilities.
Of course I'm not saying all others are that talent-less, I'm just giving you an idea of how wide the gap may be between different humans, and the diversity of skill which may be distributed among them.

Regardless, it is important that before you do any serious changes or make any drastic decisions that you have tested your system and are confident in your ability to teach. Starting an order requires quite a degree of leadership and the ability to train others, so before you go try to start an order, start small, so you can gain the necessary skills and see if you are "cut out for it".
Not only that, but this will also give you an opportunity to gain members, because you need more than one person to have an order :P

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I would rather have people gain control of their minds via the IIH before allowing them this mental awareness awakening.  The mind is an unruly beast until tamed, and giving that beast the power to cast spells with every thought doesn't sound like a great idea.

I would say that is pretty wise - If your claim about what abilities a person would gain is true, then perhaps some discipline first would be good :wink:
However, I would emphasize testing your system before that, so that you come to know how others fare with it in the first place. Then, if your claim turns out to be true, then you can start incorporating things to balance that.
But without any experimentation and testing with others so you can get some real feedback, it is unwise to make too heavy of assumptions.
Working with others will also help you flesh out your system in a practical setting.

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I honestly rather stay in graduate school, but my guide, and me myself, think its rather ridiculous for me to 'sit upon this gold mine'.  I am worried about the financial aspects.  I'm a student.  I rather go be a physics PhD, they want me to go work as a computer programmer for a year and bank it if I'm so worried about money.  I suppose I'm just scared of change.  I need measured and calculated plans to move.

Facilitating an order takes quite a lot of effort and time, so you better be sure that it's a priority for you. How well you can balance it with these other things is very dependent on how much effort you are willing to work in general.
The world will keep spinning even if you decide not to start an order - so make sure you are making your decision based on your own sincere desire.
Perhaps before you focus on changing the world, you make sure you are in a stable position and have your own life in good order first? :wink:
Not unless of course you believe you can manage both just fine, than do as you wish. Whatever you do, be wise and plan well :P

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Magick / Re: New System
« on: October 14, 2018, 11:28:02 PM »
Quite a heavy request you put out there  :wink:

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I've developed my own system of magic, based off of the mind

Essentially any magical system is based on the utilization of the mind, so you're going to have to elaborate on what exactly  you mean, or what details are particularly important or unique.
In fact it would probably be helpful if you explained a little bit about your system anyways, as anyone who would be interested in helping you will want to hear about it in the first place.
There are many people who go around claiming to have a new, ultimate system, so other people, even those who can help you, aren't likely to just take your word for it. By explaining it, even if just a little, you give yourself an opportunity to show how you may be more than just one of the numerous amount of quacks which plague the internet , and at the least, it will be easier for others to tell if you know what you are talking about and aren't just full of nonsense.
For all we know, you may be someone who thinks he is a super Saiyan and are gonna try to teach us to Kamehameha  :wink:
Of course that's most likely not true, but without any elaboration we can only assume the worst.

And of course,  I would recommend deeply evaluating your situation and what you want.
What do you hope to accomplish? What are your priorities? How can you facilitate this in balance with the other parts of your life? Can you financially sustain yourself?
Will this be an online or offline order?

Questions like these are things you should think about. Indeed do not make any hasty decisions until you are thoroughly ready and have everything figured out.

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Yes that makes sense. I'm still having trouble coming to terms what that means for me. Why blood specifically? It definitely seems so much stronger of a desire and intuneness with it that anything else ive experienced. It's so strange.

Well, like I said, I think there is an innate spiritual quality, albeit a dark and rare one, connected to blood, that perhaps you simply may be affected by. Just like natural qualities like humans instinctively fearing the dark, or being drawn to beauty, or etc. I think blood has a powerful natural connection to our psyche.

Beyond that? Only other thing would be something personal, and that's for you to figure out.  :P

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Hello and Goodbye / Re: Hey there
« on: September 13, 2018, 06:38:41 AM »
Hello there :P

Luckily for you, many of the magic articles here are influenced by or directly related to the principles within the kybalion. Have fun :wink:

5
Magick / Re: The Subject of Pacts
« on: September 11, 2018, 10:52:19 PM »
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Wait, fallen angels are actual beings? This opens up yet another rabbit hole to go down. Was the Fall a single event that happened in the distant past, or do angels fall all the time? Was there really a war in heaven, did the angels fall because they wouldn't bow down to man? Is Lucifer one of the fallen? Are the Nephilim real as well?

It would be best to ask straight from the mouth of those that were there, and evoke one :P
But fortunately, I had a fellow magician whom I trust tell me about an evoker that had done exactly that. He even shared his experience online on a forum like this one, though I don't know exactly where.
Anyways, according to him, Astaroth told him that initially the one you call Lucifer was an angel very close to what you call "god" or the Creator, and he also governed music for the Creator.
He was even one of the few to have actually seen the Creator manifest - not even most archangels have had that opportunity.
But, Lucifer grew jealous of something, what exactly, I can't quite remember.  But anyways, Astaroth describes Lucifer as being very charismatic, and he easily convinced many angels to rebel with him.
Now I don't know if there was some kind of war, or if it was more like simply walking out on your boss, but of course the end result I'm sure you are familiar with - Lucifer and those with him fell.
I hear many of the fallen regret their decision and wish to return, Astaroth included, but I'm not sure about Lucifer.

So anyways, yes the Fall is real to some degree, unless Astaroth is lying, which doesn't seem reasonable.
In regards to the Nephillim, and myth in general, I would say - there is probably truth to a lot of it, it just may or may not differ from how humans tell it.

And yes, I would think that Angels falling is more a multiple occasion thing, rather than just one single event. You've heard of the Watchers, right? They were separate from Lucifer's fall.

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I like the fluidity that different beings have according to your belief system

Mine is essentially little different than Bardon's, though their may be a few details we would argue about   :biggrin:

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It feels liberating to know that entities have the ability to shift their classification. In a way, it is very existentialist--the individual can create their own essence

Well it's mostly humans who have complicated things with their labels, stories, and lack of understanding  :P
All spirits are the same in essential structure, the only difference is what particular forces compose it.
And if you are familiar with the IIH or hermetic practice in general, than you should be familiar with the "soul mirrors" or the practice of developing the spirit to achieve equipoise or elemental equilibrium, and that whole practice capitalizes on the very fact that spirits can influence and change their spiritual structure.

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Do you consider yourself to be a Muslim? Your views don't seem very halal by mainstream standards, lol. And would the Jinn be classified as demons or elementals, or something else entirely?

Not quite. There are technical reasons which would prevent me from embracing Islam as a muslim, though I would consider myself a patron of it. I'm especially enthralled by it's Jihad aspect   :P
Regarding the Jinn, that depends, because it has many different cultural interpretations. But if we remove the cultural part, the jinn would actually encompass all spirits, including the malaa'ikah(angels), shayatin(demons), elementals, and even humans(which can be seen as a type of jinni which incarnates in a human body). The word, depending on where you ask, roughly can be used in the same sense as how we use "Spirit(s)".
Usually, like in the the Qur'an, however, it is used to refer to the more general spirits, which excludes shayatin, malaa'ikah, and humans. So in this sense, it may include elementals, gods, etc.

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I appreciate you answering all these questions, sorry if they seem annoying, I just enjoy absorbing and comparing information from many different systems.

Being inquisitive is something to be encouraged, not scolded. Don't worry  :wink:

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I too have shared the bloodlust once. It was toward someone who severely hurt someone I love in a almost an irrepairable way and I wished to permantly bind and curse them with blood beacuse using that power. And as for it seems to be both an outside source and and a personal desire. To me blood magick doesn't have to be violent or ill intended, like any magick it is based on intent,

When I said my bloodlust expressed itself in violence, I meant literally in the sense of engaging in physical violence and actual consumption of blood, not just blood magic.  :P
But yeah I think what you are experiencing is similar to what I did, even if it doesn't express itself entirely the same.

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As for what you said on it honing in on blood, could it be possible that blood is, well for lack of a better expression "in my blood" do you think?

What I meant was that your spirit/mind/subconscious is fixating and tuning in to it, and what you mention are merely the products of increased awareness.
Like how a psion, as he becomes familiar with psi, comes to feel the flow of psychic energy in his body, or read the energies in the environment or others.
I don't think you blood is literally becoming sentient, I think you are just tuning into it, sensing minute details and spiritual/physical activity in it which you didn't before. Our spiritual/physical bodies are doing all kinds of things which we are unaware of, but in this case, I am saying you are getting in tune with blood, coming to sense it in both a spiritual and physical way which we usually don't sense. Does that make sense?

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Magick / Re: The Subject of Pacts
« on: September 10, 2018, 12:32:05 AM »
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I just always kinda assumed that good karma brings you closer to enlightenment, but now that I think about it, it's probably more likely that all karma (whether good or bad) binds you in samsara because of the law of cause-and-effect. At least that appears to be what eastern religions would believe. Does your tradition consider enlightenment to be completely independent of one's karma and morality?

Very wise reflection you caught on your own.
Karma is karma is karma, good or bad  :P
If you are familiar with Rawn Clark and Bardon's materials, Rawn talks about this in somewhere. Good karma will bind you to reincarnation just as much as bad karma.
That last bit is dependent on what you define as "enlightenment". That word in itself is thrown around a lot, and there are far too many definitions.
If you mean it in the sense of Self-Realization, aka merging with the greater self/akashic principle, then yes, it is separate from morality and karma.

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I think it's absolutely fascinating that a human can become a demon. I guess I still subconsciously view demons through the Christian-influenced paradigm that dominates contemporary culture, in which demons are all fallen angels and are of a unalterably different nature than man. If a human can become a demon, does this mean that a demon can become a human? And do human souls who go to angelic realms shift in their composition as well, eventually becoming angels?

To be honest I'm not sure how many of the fallen angels would qualify as true demons. Hence, why it is important to keep them separate. Fallen angels are fallen angels, and demons are demons. Using them interchangeably is risky.

My definition of what angels and demons are comes from a more universal, practical perspective influenced by Bardon and hermetics, which clears away the cultural bias, and tries to define them with objective clarity.

In this perspective, the main attribute of what makes a demon a demon, and what makes an angel an angel, is purity.
Demons are spirits of the negative/infernal polarity, angels are beings of the celestial/positive polarity; Demons are beings of darkness, angels are beings of light.

The reason I say that I am hesitant to define fallen angels as demons, is because I am not quite sure to what degree the Fallen embraced darkness. Now there is no doubt that they fell from grace and were perverted by ego and darkness, but I am not quite sure to what degree they all entirely "converted". They may or may not have retained some of their celestial composition. I'd also point out that they did not lose there celestial powers, they merely lost their "Angel status".

Anyways, the only things which really differentiate the spiritual structure of demons/angels from "humans"  is purity, and the humans' tetrapolarity(containing all elements).
However, the latter really doesn't hold much weight as there are many spirits out there which were never human and yet are tetrapolar, including some Gods, demons, angels, aliens etc.
The only real difference between humans and angels/demons is purity. If I were to give humans one trait which really defines them, it is their mixed composition, their ability to dance between light and dark, their mediocrity.
This is one reason why humans, unlike angels and demons, are a more complete image of God, since they represent both halves of Creation, both the negative and positive, essentially representing the entire universe or  "macrocosm".

Yes, there is nothing stopping demons from becoming humans, and vice versa. And yes those that inhabit the celestial realms will eventually be no different than the angels which already inhabited those places. On top of that there will even be angels and demons which gain tetrapolarity but retain their purity and status, and will incarnate alongside "humans".

Spirits are constantly evolving on their own, shifting "classification", so the idea which have already been presented really aren't all that far fetched.
Elementals often gain another element - losing their elemental status, elementals are essentially just collections of elemental energy which gained intelligence in the first place, demons lose their demonhood by gaining a positive element, fallen angels lost their angel status by being corrupted by darkness and rebelling, animal spirits eventually become human, I think I heard humans become HGA's for other humans incarnate on earth and etc.
Spiritual evolution is everywhere :biggrin:

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I have a similar experience, but it is more predatory and "immoral" then yours.

Essentially, I too had a calling to blood magic, however it came from more a feeling of bloodlust. There's this strange, powerful, but dark and violent attractiveness about blood. If you are familiar with the hermetic cosmology, I believe that this spiritual quality/emotion comes from the negative/infernal water element.
But anyways, this bloodlust compelled me to practice some forms of vampirism and blood magic(although it also expressed itself in extreme violence and lust for even more violence).

For you, it may be something similar, or maybe not. Do you feel that this feeling you have is coming more from just intuition? Or is it more emotional and spiritual? Is it more like an inspiration from an unknown source, or personal desire?
If it is more like your intuition, or more like a strange inspiration that you aren't sure where it comes from, it may be your spirit or higher self trying to get you into it for whatever reason. If it is more emotional feeling, and more personal desire, than it is probably more like what I had, and is the expression of a dark spiritual quality within you.

A lot of the things you mention, sound like your mind/subconscious honing in on blood, kind of like how a psion may get in tune with psychic energy.

And ultimately, the decision is yours. You are your own person, and may do as you wish. If you truly wish to get into it, than do so. One of the worst things you can do in life is throw away your own desires out of fear others may not approve. However, if you don't want to, then thats on you too :biggrin:
It is up to you to meditate on it, and reflect whether it is a true desire, or something you do not want.
Anyways we aren't the morality police :P

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Magick / Re: The Subject of Pacts
« on: September 09, 2018, 07:08:23 AM »
Lucky for you  I am as left hand path as you can get  :P

However, a lot of the questions you ask are are dependent on the demon.
Just like any other spirit, they all have their own desires, personality, and powers. One demon may be able to do nothing which you ask, while another may be capable of everything. Some may not have the power, but will find other ways to assist, while another may have the power but will be unwilling to help you.

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Can making a pact actually boost your karma in certain circumstances? For example, if you make a deal with a devil to acquire healing powers and use these powers to save thousands of lives, would it increase your karma and move you closer to enlightenment?

I'm not sure what you think karma has to do with enlightenment, but anyways demons usually avoid deals which will overload your karma, good or bad. Especialy since they are somewhat responsible for what you do through the deal. But still, you may or may not find a demon who is both capable and willing to make a deal like this.

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I assume you need both clairvoyance and clairaudience, right?

Not necessarily, depends on:
-how powerful the demon is
-how powerful you are
-how interested the demon is in you

Many demons are too weak to manifest, or it would be very taxing to do so,  so in cases like that it would be necessary. Others may be powerful enough, but won't be willing or interested in appearing to you.
On the other hand, the more spiritual authority you have, the more demons will be compelled to manifest, if that is your wish. Being more powerful also gives the demons more incentive to deal with you, in which case they will want to manifest on their own.

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And does the demon actually appear in physical form at certain places?

This has more to do with your own abilities, and the demons abilities, rather than where its done.

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For example, I heard somewhere that it is best to make a deal with Satan at a crossroads. Satan is supposed to show up driving a white car and wearing a white suit. I think he will invite you into his car and you make the pact there

Alright, we're falling a bit into myth here :P
While there may be some impact to the ritual depending on where it is done, for the most part, it has to do with other things. A good magician will succeed at this anywhere.
And no, I don't think you should expect Satan to show up in a shiny BMW :P
While demons certainly do manifest in some interesting ways sometimes, what you describes sounds a bit too much like a folk tale :biggrin:
Besides, it would be dangerous for you anyways, to allow the demon to persuade you to follow them outside of your circle and ritual place.

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I assume that at some point the person who makes the pact will have to be the demon's slave

Not necessarily. That is often the case, but it depends on you, and the demon. There are plenty of demons that are open to forming more friendly relationships if you are their type, or you show that kind of sincereity and interest in them, instead of just using them like a tool for power.
For example those like demonolators and satanists etc. are far more likely to have more mutual, amicable, and less draconian interactions with them than say your average pious right hand path magician.

But still, depends on the demon, some really just want slaves :P

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Is this always a negative experience, or are some demons less cruel than others?

Again that is entirely dependent on the demon. Just like you and I, they have there own personalities.

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How far will it set back one's spiritual evolution?


That depends.
The main issue is that when you go to serve the demon after death, you are cast into the spiritual sphere he resides in, regardless of your own composition.
Our astral bodies, when we die, usually travel to a sphere that is harmonious with the composition of our own soul, however that isn't the case when you are forced to serve in a pact.
Instead you will be in a sphere that may be disharmonious, and if you stay there, your soul will gradually transform and harmonize with the sphere which you are stuck in.

Now, how will this affect your spiritual evolution? Depends what your desires were in the first place.
Obviously, if you are a right hand path hermetic magician, this will be quite a setback, and unless you escape(which I hear is possible), then the damage will be colossal.
However, if you wanted to become a demon, than making a pact is a very easy way to fulfill that, since your soul will have to convert into the composition of that sphere regardless, and eventually your soul will be no different in composition than the demons which inhabit that place. In this case, its a win-win  :biggrin:

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Magick / Re: Combining IIH and Kabbalah Ritual Magic
« on: August 25, 2018, 03:18:47 AM »
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To which I found the answer, and it is no, they cannot. They cannot because in the book Kabbalah Magic (identical to Golden Dawn system), grades are designed to purposely exaggerate elements, one by one, and by doing that bring the imbalanced characteristics up and force you to deal with them. That is how I see it. You could maybe keep the step 1 & 2, and follow the Golden Dawn system but incorporating anything after step 2 would interfere with your elemental equilibrium.

That "issue" is hardly an issue at all, with some ingenuity.
If the other system makes you dive into an element at a time, than it would only be necessary to make sure you do each one equally, that way when you finish, you are adept at handling all of them, which should then make it easy for you to achieve equipoise once you are no longer forced to focus on them as individuals.
However, I am not familiar with this system you speak of. If the practice is taught in a way that you are forced to always be out of equilibrium, then I would question the competence of that system. But as long as this process of exaggerating the elements comes to an end eventually, it shouldn't be a problem.

The soul mirrors/equilibrium are not expected to be achieved rapidly, it is expected to take possibly a lifetime or more to perfect.
And on top of that, I don't think you are aware of how flexible our spirit really is. We do not go through our daily lives, even those who have attained equipoise, with a perfect mixture of the elements. Our spirits are constantly flowing from element to element, we do not express each element in perfect ratio.  Indeed you would be surprised how elaborately the spirit can flow between elements. For example, I notice that my own composition flows with the season, generally speaking the fire element is more dominant in the summer, the water element is dominant in the winter, etc.
Despite this, I still have equipoise.
There is a flexibility and resilience to our spiritual composition, and I doubt the practice you are describing will throw that system seriously wayward.

*At this point I decided to try to find an online copy of this book, and I have, so I have skimmed through a large portion. Particularly looking for the grade thing you mentioned.

I am impressed with the book, honestly. Much better than most other ritualistic books I've seen, however there is more to it than just mere ritual anyways.
I did enjoy a lot of the "mythical stories", about the the forces of the universe and Creation, and I like how it explains the birth of the Watchers.
I do think this can be an effective means of initiation into hermetic magic. The way it is set up and the practices contained within it are very interesting.

I do not disapprove of his book at all, however there are still differences and pro's cons' between the two, and there are many things which you said which are... debatable.

First of all, the "exaggeration of the elements" within the "grades", is more passive and philosophical as it is presented. I only read the first 2-3 grades, however I did not see any of these phases structured in a way that would practically harm your attempt to achieve equilibrium with the soul mirrors. If anything, what I saw in that book is merely a structured way to eventually achieve a "soft" form of equipoise.
The only thing that only slightly concerned me was being made to perform rituals dedicated to the invocation of that grade's element, however, you are also tasked with performing banishing rituals, which counter that to a degree.
There is a difference in focus and method between the soul mirrors and what is presented in this book.
Bardon's is on a more personal level, and very direct and and precise. Like throwing you into an arena where you are forced to fight very directly with your composition until victory is achieved.
This book however, is more subtle, more gentle, and develops your spirit in a more passive way that makes it less difficult and more naturally attainable when compared to Bardon's, however it does so at the expense of being less concrete and precise. Bardon's is focused on a very straightforward restructuring of your spirit down to every last quality and emotion you have and express on a daily basis, while this book is focused on how you carry out your life in a more big picture perspective, and focuses on getting the elements to develop in a more general way, which will make it easier to refine more precisely in the future, and encourage your character to develop the elemental qualities naturally over time. It achieves what it intends to well, however I do not think it intended to be as in depth and thorough as Bardon's in the first place.
Anyways, I do not see any major conflict if one were to practice both.

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They are 2 almost completely different paths.

I very much disagree with this. The end goals are very similar, only the methods and priorities differentiate, however even still they work through the same principles and concepts.


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Your answer is seriously biased towards IIH, and you are also vastly overgeneralizing some things. For you, ritual magic equals quick results, shallow magic, mere ritual magician. IIH initiate can do better than ritual magician and that with quarter of the effort, do you really think that?

If being realistic is being biased, than yes absolutely.
This is not a matter of me rooting for the IIH like a football team, this is a matter of simple principle and practicality.

Quite frankly, rituals are a crutch. They are a way of allowing someone to reach a little higher than themselves, and achieve things which they would have difficulty achieving on their own. However ritual magic is an auxiliary which does little to directly develop the spiritual faculties used in magic,  and if practiced alone and relied upon, will do little to actually advance the magician in practical magic. It may allow you to do things which you were not capable of, however, if one never takes the time to train and develop the faculties directly which are relevant to magic, then you will have a hard time moving forward.

So absolutely, those who take the time to develop their faculties as rigorously as is done in the IIH, will end up exceeding those who practice ritual magic alone.

However, I am not saying ritual magic is devoid of benefit or usefullness. I am just saying it is not best to practice it on its own, or at least, not practiced alone for too long before incorporating more complete practice.

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I don't believe that any system of magic is more superior than the other. It is how a magician is using his time. Also, IIH does not get you immeasurably further, you get yourself further by practicing yourself. Being ritual magician or Bardon practitioner will get you nowhere. Your hard work will get you somewhere. Hence, practicing any system could give you similar in kind development, not superior than the other. They just offer a bit different paradigms.

This is... noble i suppose, but not realistic. There is a right way to do things, and there are wrong ways to do things. And there are good ways to do things, but also better ways to do things.
Now, I will not say that any system is without purpose or is useless. Depending on what you are trying to achieve however, there are definitely going to be systems more suited towards your goal, and ones which are not. And there are certainly things some are better at, and things which they are worse at. There are pros and cons to every system.

Now in regards to that book:
I have not read through cover to cover, however if the first half is as similar to the last half, than i would say that it is a good book, which when compared to Bardon's is geared more towards getting the student "on their feet" in a more timely manner, at the expense of depth. I also think it is less difficult, and more accessible to the common man.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Believe me, I like the book. I'm just pointing out that there are differences between what they are trying to accomplish.
Also, I would say that you have two choices which would be most wise, regarding what you should practice:
You should either practice the Kabalah book first, and move on to the IIH after completing it.
Or, you may wish to practice both at the same time.

But that is up to you

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Magick / Re: Combining IIH and Kabbalah Ritual Magic
« on: August 23, 2018, 05:34:09 PM »
The IIH, if followed all the way through and practiced correctly, will get you immeasurably further than any ritual magic practice.
If you are looking for quicker "results" and more entertaining practices but less potent magical development, then by all means emphasize your investment into ritual magic. However if you have the patience, than emphasize your investment into the IIH instead.
It may take quite some time, but eventually the IIH will put you far past your mere ritual magician.

The reason you feel you are "missing" from the IIH, is because the IIH focuses on reconditioning and developing your spirit from the ground up, instead of throwing you into more entertaining, but also more shallow "magic". It is laborious and drawn out, however it eventually results in faculties and capabilities that blow ritual magicians out of the water. Everything a ritual magician can do, an IIH initiate can do without a ritual and with a quarter of the effort. And when an initiate performs rituals, he does so with far more effectiveness.
However the IIH initiate also ends up putting a vast amount of time on just "development" and has taken years developing the abilities that allow him to exceed his fellow ritual magicians.

If you can be content with quicker but less powerful development, than focus on ritual magic. But if you have the patience for more thorough and potent development, focus on the IIH.

However, I don't see any reason why you couldn't practice the IIH fully, and still practice ritual magic. The exercises Bardon puts you through aren't really that time consuming on a daily basis. They just require unwavering consistency.
Unless you are a very busy man, than you should have plenty of time even with the practices of the IIH on your schedule. But if you are going to do the IIH at all in the first place, do take it seriously, regardless of what other things you do. The IIH is not something to merely do like an occasional hobby, unless you enjoy wasting time and being inefficient in development.

Ritual magic, on the other hand, requires less strict adherence, and will not suffer as dearly from neglect as the IIH will.

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Spirituality / Re: What happens after death?
« on: August 19, 2018, 03:30:39 AM »
I answered other, because nearly all of them are true to some degree....at least according to many common western magical persepctives.

To elaborate:

According to hermetics, the western magic mostly commonly taught here, when a human dies, their soul will depart from this physical sphere into a region in the astral plane that is harmonious with the composition of their own soul. For example, someone with a largely negative soul will go to a similarly negative region, which in a way could be perceived as "Hell", due to the negative regions being well.... hellish :biggrin:
And of course, a noble, positive soul will go to a region similarly positive, which can be perceived as heaven.
However, this isn't necessarily about punishment or reward - a soul simply needs to be in a region that is synchronized with their composition, or else the soul would be dissonant with the incorrect region, and it would gradually be forced to transmute itself into the composition of that region.
Usually, as far as I know, a soul will only be forced into a disharmonious region through unnatural means.
For example, if a man was to bind himself in a contract with a demon where he would have to serve it after death in return for whatever things he recieved through the deal, his soul would be bound to the demon's sphere upon death so as to fulfill his contract, and his soul would gradually conform to the composition of that region, and he essentially would become a demon himself.

Anyways, human souls usually will reside within the astral sphere until they are ready to reincarnate again.
However, eventually a human soul will no longer need to reincarnate due to development, and instead can reside in his correspondent region of the astral sphere practically forever, or he can dissolve his astral body and move up to the mental sphere.

Another possibillity is the death or dissolving of the personal consciousness/Ego willingly, which is often called the mystic's death, since it is primarily done by mystics who seek to merge or dissolve themselves into the subject of their studies.
My understanding of this operation is limited, but it's something like this:
A mystic who's subject is Light, for this example, will develop there spirit and soul much like a magician would in order to break the cycle of reincarnation, and once he dies and tranfers to the astral sphere, he will work to dissolve his astral body and move up into the region of the mental sphere which is correspondent to Light, and I think there is one step further where he merges or dissolves his mental body into the principle of Light, literally becoming one with it, destroying his personal Ego and conciousness in the process.
Again, my knowledge here is limited, so I might possibly have details wrong.

But as we can see, according to this perspective there is some truth to nearly all of them.
Of course I make no claims of this perspective being the absolute truth, nor will I claim I have evidence of this, I am simply giving you all some "food for thought", so take it as you wish  :P

13
The Cafeteria / Re: Ultimate Kilik thread
« on: August 16, 2018, 03:27:29 AM »
I'm not a big fan of Alex Jones,  however I do not believe he, or anyone at all, should be censored.
And I think these recent moves by the media and social media platforms really give insight into the corruption and dishonesty of the media. The media, corporations, and the gov't - all corrupt, as well as intertwined.

I have a view of alex similar to what joe rogan has. I believe he is right about some things, however he gets too caught up and gets things wrong too. I do believe he means well, but he's a man who's angry at the sheer amount of corruption,  and I think at times this overwhelms him and clouds his judgement.

14
Magick / Re: Thought Control
« on: August 12, 2018, 08:52:53 AM »
Wow, this is starting to look more like a chat room than a thread. :HA!:

Yeah I've started to realize that :biggrin:
I don't want to be smitten by a moderator for getting off topic, so I've sent you a pm instead :P

Just so you both know, we tend to play pretty loose with the whole "on topic" thing here in general. Unless a thread gets wildly out of control or devolves into name calling or some such, it's usually all right. It's mostly up to the OP and the other posters to choose the direction of a thread any way. That's not to say that every topic-specific thread should devolve into just "so what are you up to" or "how was your day?" posts, but we care less about being strictly on topic than perhaps some other forums do. :P

Mods are mostly here to remove spam and make sure people follow the rules: http://vsociety.net/index.php?title=Veritas_rules

Beyond that, we're mostly just happy to see discussion as it doesn't tend to happen as much as it used to.

(But of course feel free to PM each other if that works better for you two.)

Thank you, I'll keep that in mind :biggrin:

15
Magick / Re: Thought Control
« on: August 12, 2018, 01:49:18 AM »
Wow, this is starting to look more like a chat room than a thread. :HA!:

Yeah I've started to realize that :biggrin:
I don't want to be smitten by a moderator for getting off topic, so I've sent you a pm instead :P

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