The Veritas Society

Discussion Areas => Body Energy Arts => Topic started by: Koujiryuu on June 27, 2004, 09:08:55 PM

Title: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 27, 2004, 09:08:55 PM
Originally posted by the knowledgable Kendamu and Donjitsu2 here: http://www.ki-teachings.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1


This is for all those who still question that radki is useless. I will
pick apart the most basic and most referenced techniques in the radki
“canon” of techniques.

It seems to me that many of you radki kids are missing the point. We
have never said that being able to attack, defend, move, or knock out a
person without making physical contact is impossible. In fact, numerous
times we speak at great length regarding to use of “no touch” power. We
simple refer to skills that enable one to harm another with out making
physical contact as the Lin Kong Jing (powerful empty force) or
Kiaijutsu. We have never said that with ki training you cannot become stronger
or faster. We simply call those methods by different names like nei
jing training (for internal power) or Speed Gong training (gong means
skill, this skill is from the Shaolin temple). We have never said that you
cannot have incredible amounts of power in your strikes. We just call
these methods shi jing, fa jing, ect… You see just because a skill seems
“esoteric” doesn’t mean we are going to write it off as radki or
“fluff”. It is the method by which you are attempting to gain certain
“esoteric” skills that we may call into question. Not all training method are
created equal. The radki training may promise certain desirable skills.
But do they deliver? Through out its history radki has never been able
to “walk the walk” so to speak (though radki practitioners do try to
“talk the talk”). The traditional methods deliver every you could ever
want out of martial training system: Health, fighting ability, and even
the legendary powers so many seek. You just need to put in the training
time. For those of you who still feel that radki has some thing to
offer I have listed below the three most common radki techniques and they
form the basis of all other techniques. (I have not listed the ki ball
exercise because in reality the ki ball exercise is a traditional
training method for healers). Along with a discussion on the Ki blast, Ki
shield, and Power up, I have also included a discussion on the incorrect
radki usage of the word “jing”.

One of the first things you will have to understand about the proper
usage of Qi is the “4 Big Points”. The four big points are the things
truly necessary in utilizing your qi in daily life and especially in
combat. Without them your techniques will be, what Yiquan creator Wang,
Hsiang Zhai referred to as, “lifeless and without real power or spirit”.
The four big points to utilizing qi for combat are:

1. Correct Posture
2. Correct Breathing- (either Buddhist style of Taoist style)
3. Correct Bodily Mechanics
4. Correct use of Intent



**"Ki blast: Place one hand out and make a chi ball. Begin to let
energy flow into that ball making it so big that it’s as big as your hand
and you can grip it all the way around. When a ball of energy is made
that big, begin to fill your arm with Chi itself and look at your target
drawing imaginary lines at it so you may guide your chi blast along
those lines. Unleash the energy you had in your arm out onto the ball of
energy and let it propel it out to the target. (To make the chi blast
damage whoever ... see the blast going through them making a hole in
them.) "**

Notice how at no point does this description mention anything about
body mechanics, breathing, or posture. All the practitioner is given is a
bunch of visualization. And might I add that this is improper use of
visualization (intent). I mean would anyone expect to be able to throw a
good strong punch or kick without first being well versed in posture,
body mechanics, breathing and intent. Of course not. Even modern boxing
with its simplistic approach to throwing punches has rules for
breathing, posture, body mechanics, and focus (intent). At its very base level
you are taught to punch by having one foot in front of the other,
spread about shoulder width apart, shoulders square with your opponent,
guard up, head up, and to stay “light on your toes”. That is just proper
posture for boxing, which is much more simplistic then any other martial
art. I could write a whole paper on the mechanics of a boxer’s punch,
which would include focus, posture, body mechanics, and breathing. Yet,
in this description of a radki technique, when we are working with a
very subtle energy, we are given nothing to work with but visualization.
Is that a basis for a proper technique? I think not. While we are on
the subject of visualization: the radki kids didn’t even get that right.
We all know qi (ki) is led by the mind (yi). But, do we really need to
“lead our qi by the hand”? Of course not, qi has been flowing through
you since your conception – with you having to even think about it. So,
if we simply wish our qi to flow out of our bodies all we need to do is
extend it beyond our body. With enough internal power you can extend
your qi a great distance. However, to build up the kind of internal power
needed for that and especially the kind of internal power needed for
combat you will need to be doing some internal power training (like zhan
zhuang). That is another thing radki sites never mention: nei jing
(internal power) training. If you are lucky you might get a description of
basic seated meditation or I’ve even seen a SECTION of the Ba Duan Jin
(a basic qigong). Trust me that isn’t nearly enough to build the kind
of power needed for martial applications.





**Ki Shield : Place both hands out in front of you . See within your
mind energy flowing from your Kae-dem into your arms . Then from your
arms to your hands . You will know when the energy is there . When you can
feel the energy in your palms, within your mind make the energy itself
expand around your hand"s however big you want it to be (the smaller
the easier ) . Hold it there at however big you have gotten it to be and
begin to visualize that Energy field you created upon your hands
turning into glass. The harder you focus on that glass ( shield ) the thicker
it will be."**

Now this one is the funny one. It pretty does all the bad things the ki
blast does, as I mentioned above. However, it goes a step further:
manipulating qi after it has left your body.
With that said lets look at the why of this technique. Why would be
need a ki shield? To block “ki attacks”. Well, that won’t work because all
you doing is bringing ki out and letting surround you (which you
actually aren’t doing for those of you who didn’t read the above links). How
is that any different from the ki that is already on your skin. A
non-physical attack obviously has no problem going through the qi that flows
on the Lou channels of your skin so why would it have trouble if you
somehow managed to get qi to form a shell around you (just off the
surface of your skin)? It wouldn’t. Then maybe it is for defending against
physical attacks. Sorry, no. Since you aren’t actually building a shield
of qi around you, you wouldn’t stopping anything.





**"Power Up: This technique is as strong as you make it.
Sit down, in your mind and begin to draw in energy all over into all
points of your body. Have your eyes shut and just let energy flow into
you Now do this for however long you wish ( the longer the bigger the
power ) . When you feel that you have as much energy that you want, stand
up and have your head bowed sort of like a dramatic scene. Picture the
worse thing that has happened to you like perhaps a death in your
family and let that get you angry. When you get angry and you know it have
your eyes and face shoot your eyes open and yell letting out that energy
like a flare out which will probably quadruple your power for around 10
seconds or however you hold it out ( do this when your not tired but
hyper for better results )."**

Along with breaking the same rules as the ki blast this one also goes a
step further – just in a different direction then the ki shield. This
technique has you drawing in qi from points all over your body. The
reason this is wrong is that there are certain points on your body where qi
actually flows out from (like the palms and fingertips). Drawing energy
in from points like that will cause stagnation of qi. Qi stagnation is
a very bad thing and can cause severe illness. It also has you to make
yourself feel angry. Working with energy and being angry is bad for the
spirit and can also cause illness and damage to the internal organs.
When do energy practice you will want to be calm and focused, not angry.
Xingyiquan master Dai Long Bang (1750 a.d) echoes these views in one of
his treatises on internal power training:
“Before practice - The stomach should be neither too full nor too
empty, the mind should not be preoccupied with other affairs, do not
practice when angry. When hungry one has no energy, too full and the stomach
will be injured. Extraneous thoughts harm the brain. Anger harms the
spirit.”

The author of this technique also disregards exactly ‘how’ to flare out
the energy (as if one could do such a thing).

Often I hear the radki-ka talk about Jing. Except they seem to have
really bastardized this word. Within the radki community jing is meant to
mean “compressed ki”. This is total crap and anyone with any knowledge
of internal martial arts can tell you otherwise. Jing is a Chinese word
and has two different meanings (a Chinese homonym if you will). In one
sense Jing relates to the three treasures of man and translates to mean
“essence”. It is the primal energy you get from you parents that makes
you, physically you. It is closely related to bodily fluids, especially
semen and menstrual blood. In another sense jing can be seen as meaning
“skillful or refined strength” (as opposed to brute strength). However,
it can also mean “internal strength”, as it has come to be translated
by modern internal martial artists (for good reason I assure you). I,
and many other internal martial artists, translate the word jing both
ways at the same time: jing – “internally refined strength or power”. Any
other translations outside the already established translations of this
Chinese word are incorrect. There is simply no other way of saying it.
We know what the word means and it CANNOT be translated to mean
anything close to “compressed ki”. Sorry, but deal with it.

I think that should just about do it. Feel free to post questions or
arguments.

I'll start the replies by replying to everything published on the
website you got those Radki examples from:

This is my response to
http://www.geocities.com/halos_hideout/What_is_ki.html

Halo wrote:
If you find yourself asking this well it fairly simple in the way you
look at it really . Ki ( chi ) Is the universal spiritual energy that
all living beings pocess .


I prefer to see it on a more realistic level that I learned from Dr.
Yang, Jwing-Ming. Qi is the fundamental stuff of the universe. Everything
is made of matter. Matter is made of energy vibrating at various
frequencies.

Quote:
Me and you both have chi within us and an aura to top it off thats
constantly showing .


According to modern research, Qi is strongly related to bio-electricity
(and I believe that bio-electricity is Ren Qi [human Qi]). Since
bio-electricity does slightly eminate off the body due to nervous activity,
I'll have to agree with you on that aura bit.

Quote:
My dog has a Ki level also since he is a living being .


Yes, all living things do have Ren Qi, but don't let that fool you into
thinking that dead things don't have Qi. The Qi of dead things is
called Si Qi (dead Qi) or Guo Qi (ghost Qi). Since all matter has Qi
(energy) and even dead things have matter, dead beings are not without Qi.

Quote:
Since its a spiritual energy animals can not raise their chi levels...


Wait a minute! I want to once again say that Qi is not spiritual. In
China, electricity is called Dian Qi (electric Qi), the weather is called
Tian Qi (heaven Qi), and heat is called Re Qi (heat Qi). Heat, the
weather, and electricty are not spiritual and you should know that if you
ever listened through your science lessons. Qi is not spiritual. Its
scientific.

Quote:
...because well im Christian and i beleive Humans will only inherit the
Kingdom of God when they pass on . If your thinking that movie " all
dogs go to Heaven " is still real then either your moms been babying you
for far to long or you just got something wrong with you .


Now this is out of nowhere. There is nothing wrong with me and my mom
has not been babying me. I'm just not a Christian and being something
besides Christian is not wrong. Its not like you're one to talk of
maturity, anyway.

Quote:
Anyways Ki is an unlimited power within us since our soul is endless so
is our ki level at all points, even when you dont have anymore your
still alive so you still have some within you .


If you still have some within you then talking about not having anymore
is kind of redundant. As I stated before, even dead matter has Qi.

Quote:
Some people will tell you if you are Christian that this is a tool of
satan like " Witchcraft " or something like that but its not .


Looks like we agree that its not a tool of Satan but we agree for
different reasons. If Qi was Satanic then existance itself would be Satanic
by my logic.

Quote:
Its the energy that allows you to race your friends, get up and go to
school, You use Ki everyday without knowing it.


We agree again!

Quote:
God put this within us and I rather learn to use it then let it just
sit there .


That's a personal belief but I get your drift. Good motivation!

This is my response to the part the Faith page that applies to my life.
You can view this at
http://www.geocities.com/halos_hideout/Religion.html

Halo wrote:
What is Witchcraft ?

its a power of satan thats used for evil and some say its used for good
... But I dont see how Evil can be used for good ... Isnt that self
Contridicting ?


Actually Witchcraft is part of a religion known as Wicca. According to
the rules of Wicca, to actually harm someone with Witchcraft is the
equivalent of breaking one of your Ten Commandments.

Quote:
The controling of another persons will is the art of witchcraft by
Biblical terms . If I force someone to jump off a cliff to thier death is
witchcraft . Just Controling someone aginst thier will is witchcraft .


According to some rituals I have attended, I perceive witchcraft as a
bunch of rituals meant to give thanks to the God and Goddesses that
those people believe in because they believe that it will keep the world in
a natural balance to do so.

Of course, you are a Christian and as far as I know Christians believe
that every other belief in existance is wrong. Please correct me if I
am misinterpreting Christianity.

---------------------------------

This is my response to
http://www.geocities.com/halos_hideout/Energies.html

Quote:
ENERGIES

This place explains all the diffrent Kinds of energy that this world
and some others pocess . use what you will and Please know what is good
and evil of all kinds of energies.

Chi, Ki, = The energy of the spirit which all Living things are blessed
with within this world and outside . ( dosent affect non-living things
. If at a High Energy level from the intensity of the energy it can
affect though, and if Mental and visualization is included then it can
affect non-living thing . )


Qi is the energy of all matter that makes up and powers matter and
matter is what makes up every material thing in existance. Its not a
spiritual energy. Its not something that requires faith and beliefs. Refer
back to m rant on heat, eletricity and the weather!

Quote:
Mana : ( Revised ) This is the energy of the earth which flows through
the earth, its true its used in witchcraft in some forms but in others
its just another energy . When using Mana it helps in-tune us with
nature some say .


What you're thinking of is Di Qi (Earth Qi) which is the magnetic field
of the Earth. This field, through interaction with with other heavenly
bodies, is what creates things like tides. It has nothing to do with
Witchcraft of any type.

Quote:
Light Matter : The energy of the sun . This energy wards of evil and
helps to fight aginst darkness and demons very well when need'd . its so
strong it takes a little while to gather it .


Actually, radiation is the energy of the sun though the presence of the
sun does give off Re Qi (Heat Qi). It has nothing to do with the
fighting off of demons. It has more to do with the revolutions and general
life of our planet.

Quote:
Dark Matter : The opposite of Light matter . This energy is evil right
down to the core . It fills the mind with chaos i beleive or can
corrupt ones self, or possibly take control ... since thers no telling what
evil is capable of these days .


Dark Matter is actually a perpetually dense piece of rock that fell
from space into someone's back yard in northern Indiana between 1994 and
1996. Supposedly it is now being held at Ft. Knox. Its not good or evil.
Its just a rock.

Quote:
Jing : The energy that is within ones muscles and can be squeezed out
during tension . Its created when energy is so compressed it takes form
at times and has weight .


Essentially, without getting into too much detail, Jing is the essence
of humanity. Jing from the mother and father combined is what forms a
human being. It can be conserved through not over-indulging in sexual
activity and refined through different types of meditation in order to
increase longevity. In the martial arts it can be conserved and refined
in order to make your strikes more powerful or for you to project Qi
over a distance after a few years of a special type of training.

Quote:
Shen : Mysterious energy that comes when Limits are broken or when
Limit Breaks are done . When one can harness the abilities of shen then one
is truely mysterious .


Actually Shen is the Spirit. Spirit would happen to be a part of the
mind which resides in the Upper Dan Tian traditionally. The other parts
of the mind being Xin (emotional mind) and Yi (will).

Quote:
Psi : Energy of the Mind . It is the mental capabilities that allow us
to move things with our minds and talk to one another mentaly .


You're actually right about this one. In Chinese the skills from this
would come from a refined Shen, Xin, and Yi.
Burn out

Something that all people who plan to train in chi should know about is
called " burn out " .

BURN OUT : When your body is at such a loss of energy, when you have
used up so much energy you get to the point where you can feel Deathly
Ill .
The way to prevent this is, Befor Sparring or even trainning, do at
least 5 minutes of meditation so you can draw in some extra energy, or do
like i do, use a " Chi Chamber " which is created with the " Chi
Chamber " tech . If you do burn out, the best thing i can reccomend is that
you stay in bed and listen to UpLifting Christian Music something that
will make you happy for about 2 days or maybe 1 day if you cant make 2 .
Do not doubt anything, and do not fear, the burn out will disappear
over a certain period of time . Drink lots of fluids like gatorade and DO
NOT i repeat DO NOT try to do anything not even meditation Until you
are FULLY if not almost completey Healed .


In reality there is no such thing as Burn Out. When you work with your
Qi in a proper manner you can't become burnt out. The only things even
close to this are becoming injured in a fight, not keeping up with your
Qigong or going outside when the weather is too bad for just your Qi
alone to protect you from and becoming sick, or staying awake for too
long and falling asleep so that your body can rebalace itself. What Halo
is basically describing (minus the Christian music) is tips for getting
over the flu.

Kouji's addendum:
Qigong can:
Improve health, increase martial power, increase awareness, increase stamina, make you impervious to cuts and bruises, heal yourself or others...

Qigong can't:
Make you fly, let you shoot beams of light, make you a "Super Saiyan", make you invincible, etc.

http://www.geocities.com/koujiryu/beam.jpg   <----the only beam attack you'll ever be able to do  >:D
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Enlightenment on June 27, 2004, 09:20:18 PM
already read that, although I am glad you posted that, as I have gotten many a PM, and IMs (aim, msn, etc.) on Radki and whatnot..and how they only wish to do it because it looks cool; hopefully they'll pay attention to this.

oh, and that link doesnt work, Kouj.  It says the picture/page is missing.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tsumaru on June 27, 2004, 11:04:46 PM
Because geocities is a bit fackered, you have to copy the URL into a browser address bar and hit enter to view the image properly. You can't just click on the link.

Anyways, thanks for posting this. It's actually got some of the stuff missing from the original though, doesnt it? Not like it really matters, as it covers a good majority of the stuff, though pointing out the stupidity of the "Chi Chamber" technique might have been nice as it was mentioned in Halo's crap in the first place...



AND WTF IS UP WITH THE CHRISTIAN MUSIC?!?!?!?!

Sorry, had to get that out of my system =P

Well, thanks for posting it. Now if I ever come across any RadKiers, rather then flaming them completely, I can send them to this link....and flame them a bit too, for fun =P
Title: Thanks for the input guys
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 28, 2004, 01:35:08 AM
Some people seem to have problems accessing my geocities account...it works fine for myself and others, and for some it just doesn't work period. :/

Tsu, you're correct, there was a 3rd part as well, however I left it out as I figured it was a long enough post already, and illustrated many good points to boot. Perhaps I'll repost it later in the thread.

BTW E, the picture was nothing more than a pic of me Shinkuu-Hadouken'ing Chun-Li in MSHvsSF, on WinKawaks  :D  Basically Ryu doing a humongous blue kamehameha-ish beam attack.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Enlightenment on June 28, 2004, 09:40:57 AM
lol, I figured it was either something like that, or those kamehameha drawings of the japanese guy Tsu posted a long time ago; God that was a funny thread, too bad some n00bs were like "omg!!!11!1! I knew it wuz 4 real!!1!11!!!one!!1one!!XD"

and Tsu, as a Christian..I must say...

EVEN I DONT KNOW WHAT'S UP WITH CHRISTIAN MUSIC

Be Well.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: mystic on June 28, 2004, 12:44:28 PM
wow, urm...just wow...
I don't know what is more surprising. That a thread pointing out the flaws in radical chi is on veritas, or that it came from ki-teachings.com, a site that last year, was very fluffy. Talk about irony.
But all joking aside, probably in the winter, when the main content is complete and done again, there is going to be an update to this topic at launch. The topic is nice to point and tell people, bam there is some of the inconsistencies in radical chi practice, but I myself want to hit a broader spectrum with it. I do indeed plan on creating a psychological analysis thereof, plan on hitting up the rest of radical chi techs, and ultimately tell people for freaking sake, when it is all said and done, the ki flame is nothing but a improper kiai.
So, expect a lot coming in the winter. That is all I can say as it relates to plans I have for the site, plans that the admins have for the site, and anything else overall. Nine times out of 10, there will be a lot done...
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on July 03, 2004, 07:45:53 AM
Quote from: Koujiryuu

A. The
reason this is wrong is that there are certain points on your body where qi
actually flows out from (like the palms and fingertips). Drawing energy
in from points like that will cause stagnation of qi. Qi stagnation is
a very bad thing and can cause severe illness. It also has you to make
yourself feel angry. W


I seem to remember an article ( the matrix theory) which was never finished/released that had a technique that involved 'spiralling' qi up your arm or something, it was written by Silver i think, is this incorrect then?( I know its out of date now, but i still have it on my pc) i wouldn't be too hard on these guys, simply because veritas used to teach stuff like that, i recall the chi 101 articles having 'chi shields' and 'ki flame's' and even on prophecy's 'spirit dagger' page it had a 'qi flame' tech, though he explained the difference between a rad ki flame and his one (which i think was supposed to have been taken from a shaolin technique and involved breathing in flames or thinking about a flame in your dan tien, in fact i have seen a program in which some sect of bhuddist monks did this and could actually use it as a means of internal heat generation). Anyways, I have tried all the techniques over the past 2-3 years presented by veritas, and as such have made my own judgements about all of them and their uses (in fact i didn't acgree with all of them). Some, have been downright awful, others have been real eye-openers... that aside, I trust the quality of the articles here, and the depth of knowledge has increased, but it wasn't always like that.
...

What im saying is that we should let other sites go through the same phase that this one did, no one came here and told us what we were doing was wrong (unless it all happened behind closed doors), we and the teachers were simply allowed to grow, mature and learn on our own and now we are passing the knowledge onto newbies, but most importantly we are STILL learning. im glad that the veritas staff took a stand on their own website against rad ki and all things fluff, but is it our place to do it somewhere else?
Maybe it is...Maybe not, ah, such is the duality of this online path...
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 03, 2004, 04:46:55 PM
Why let them go through "phases" when they can skip a step and get it right the first time?

If I were playing Final Fantasy X and I were equipping amor that prevents Sleep by accident when going up against a monster that can turn me to stone, I'd be quite glad if someone told me before it was too late to equip the armor that keeps me from turning to stone because, well, turning to stone isn't a "phase" I'd enjoy going through.

Just because Veritas used to do something wrong doesn't mean that Veritas enourages people to do things wrong now.  This is also true for Ki Teachings.  It used to be the Fluff Capital of OECville but that doesn't mean that it likes sites teaching fluff in the present.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Zake on July 03, 2004, 05:33:38 PM
Argh!  I had a REALLY BIG and INTELLIGENT post here before, all about comparing radchi to psi and arguing how it isn't quite as ridiculous as it seems in a different context.  And its gone!  (Perhaps I deleted it?  Perhaps some totalitarian mod trashed it saying "NO!  Saying semi-nice bits about radchi is NOT ALLOWED!"?  Dunno.)  Now I'm just about annoyed enough to replace it with a SMALL and RANT-PREFACED blurb on its basic points:

The basic techniques described in the above article, while in themselves agreeably useless, are quite comparable to similar techniques in other disciplines, most notably psi.  The obvious example was the "ki shielding" technique, which echoed the common psi technique of shielding to protect from unwanted telepathy, sparring, and so forth.  Looked at this way, radchi seems to be the subject of too much of a hubbub- if radchiers supposed themselves to be practicing a variant of psionics rather than tradchi, perhaps, it would simply be the "fluffy and inevitable" variant, similar to how wicca and new age stuff is to magic.

Not to say I support radchi in the slightest.  I'm simply arguing that its a DBZ-addicts uber-super-n00b version of psi.  And, of course, the more "advanced" radchi techniques are just inexcusable.  So don't flame me!  This was all explained better in the original post.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Mysticus on July 03, 2004, 05:55:25 PM
I completely agree with Kendamu.

To let the truth be told, my first experiences with the OEC were with rad-ki sites. I'd read everything on rad-ki, and been made all sorts of promises about being able to fly, blast people, and transform into an 'ascended being'. I was around 12 at the time, and highly impressionable - naive if you will. I had watched DBZ, and was amazed and awed at the prospect of becoming as powerful as a Super Saiyan.

I practiced and practiced, and did all of the visualisations, and all of the half-arsed 'techniques' that were supposed to give me such great power. Then, as time went on, I found other sites written by people more enlightened than myself. At first, I discounted it all - I could produce ki-balls, after all! All these people were just trying to rain on my parade, because they didn't believe it - I could do anything if I just put my mind to it - anything was possible, after all!

But I came around to my senses, eventually. The 'advanced techniques' of rad-ki always seemed so out of reach, and despite my unshakeable beliefs in what I was doing, and my best efforts, I couldn't achieve what I was promised. After months upon months of disappointment, I found my answer in Veritas - for every question I had, there was always a sensible answer to be found here.

That was well over 2, maybe even more than 3 years ago. Now I am a diligent practitioner of Zhan Zhuang, am a Martial Artist, and am far more knowledgable about the workings of energy and the body than I was all that time ago. And perhaps most importantly, especially for all of you rad-ki-ers out there, I am far stronger than I ever was when I practised rad-ki.

The fact of the matter is, that while rad-ki may have a few interesting ideas, it just doesn't work. You can become stronger - unbelievably so, and you can attain tremendous levels of skill, speed and power; but only if you work hard, and work at that which is really going to give you the strength you so desire. And that certainly isn't going to be rad-ki.

And if you still don't believe me, then ask yourself this - could you, after years of studying your rad-ki, defeat a Shoulin monk? That would be the ultimate test of rad-ki vs. 'traditional ki', when it is all said and done. And you'd just be plain kidding yourself if you think you could ever beat a Shoulin monk with rad-ki 'skills'.

I do apologise, as that seemed to come out as a bit of a rant, but that was what I needed to say, and I hope that my little testamonial sets straight at least a few of those rad-ki-ers who sorely need a swift kick in the right direction!
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 03, 2004, 06:44:12 PM
Quote from: Zake
Argh!  I had a REALLY BIG and INTELLIGENT post here before, all about comparing radchi to psi and arguing how it isn't quite as ridiculous as it seems in a different context.  And its gone!  (Perhaps I deleted it?  Perhaps some totalitarian mod trashed it saying "NO!  Saying semi-nice bits about radchi is NOT ALLOWED!"?  Dunno.)  Now I'm just about annoyed enough to replace it with a SMALL and RANT-PREFACED blurb on its basic points:

The basic techniques described in the above article, while in themselves agreeably useless, are quite comparable to similar techniques in other disciplines, most notably psi.  The obvious example was the "ki shielding" technique, which echoed the common psi technique of shielding to protect from unwanted telepathy, sparring, and so forth.  Looked at this way, radchi seems to be the subject of too much of a hubbub- if radchiers supposed themselves to be practicing a variant of psionics rather than tradchi, perhaps, it would simply be the "fluffy and inevitable" variant, similar to how wicca and new age stuff is to magic.

Not to say I support radchi in the slightest.  I'm simply arguing that its a DBZ-addicts uber-super-n00b version of psi.  And, of course, the more "advanced" radchi techniques are just inexcusable.  So don't flame me!  This was all explained better in the original post.


Radki started out as an experiment.  The basis of everything in Radki was ripped straight from a Psionics site called Active Psy.  After that manual came out and became popular, myself and a few others expanded on that and made what came to be called "DBZism."  Then we made a few changes to distance ourselves from DBZ and we got "Radki."  Because of that, the established practices became known as "Tradki" in the OEC.  Years passed and Radki became very bastardized (not that it was that good in the first place) because new webmasters decided to be lazy and take the very few breath methods we had out of Radki.

All in all, Radki in its experimental form is Psionics mixed with anime made to promise results that can easily turn the tides in combat with power-ups, ki shields, ki punches, and ki blasts.  If you want that kind of combat power, talk to the Psions on this site and see which aspects of Psionics could actually help in combat.  I figure maybe some sort of construct covering the fist with the Programming to make the person feel more pain than there really is should do as well as some shields that make you more aware of a fist flying at you or whatnot when it breaches the shield (kind of like a "Spidey Sense").

Radki/DBZism in its purest non-experimental form is what I practiced.  It was like the experimental form but it had the Buddhist Breath incorperated.  The only reason that ever worked out for me was because I was unknowingly using the power of the Kiai to enhance my strength, state-of-mind, and affect my opponents without actually touching them.  Another thing is that I didn't use the muscle tension that was prescribed for the power-ups.  I found it a waste of time because I wanted to power-up instantly.  Eventually I realized that what I was doing was Kiaijutsu so I stopped doing the Kamehameha hand positions and the DBZ visualizations and just did the Kiai.  That's what I'm still doing to this day (though I think I've advanced quite a bit since then).  So if you like that form of power, read the Kiaijutsu stuff on this site.

What you see as Radki nowadays is just visualizations and hand movements.  No breathing and nothing similar to Psionics.  The current form of Radki is something like "Visualize yourself on fire and you'll be stronger" or "stick your hand out and visualize fire coming out of it and you'll make someone explode."  Just forget that stuff altogether because it'll get you nowhere while Radki in its other two forms may at least allow you to stumble into pure Psionics or real Kiaijutsu.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on July 06, 2004, 07:20:09 AM
Quote from: Kendamu

If I were playing Final Fantasy X and I were equipping amor that prevents Sleep by accident when going up against a monster that can turn me to stone, I'd be quite glad if someone told me before it was too late to equip the armor that keeps me from turning to stone because, well, turning to stone isn't a "phase" I'd enjoy going through.



I think that's called 'cheating'!! :) j/k, think of it this way Ken, when one gows up, one can not simply jump from a child of 1 playing with toys, to an adult acting the age of a 40 year old in a single step, yes by all means children need help, but that help should be in the form of 'scaffolding' guidance, not strict direction, how else will these people be able to learn for themselves when you guys 'pack up and leave', so to speak, like silverdawn said in one of his articles "instead of bringing you the food, im going to teach you how to cook", guide them, but don't force it down their throats, or else they will never learn, simply offer to them WHEN ASKED, because if they come and ask you for knowledge then you know that they are mature enough to handle it and that they have the will and drive to seek out the knowledge that you offer, if you ram it at them they will despise you for it. (maybe... :)) I have seen it before with the likes of 'Ki sanctuary' which simply reverted back to its DBZer ways once left to its own devices.

In conclusion (this being my opionion) help them through this phase (all of life is made up of phases) don't push them out un-naturally.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Enlightenment on July 06, 2004, 11:39:59 AM
DownRodeo: ah, I agree SOMEWHAT with you, but...if we never, ever show them before they ask, or before we think they are 'ready' (which could never be, for it is always a thing of opinion), then when will they ever learn?  If they never become interested in this path from their own curiosity (the path of Chi Kung and the martial arts), then how, praytell, how do you expect them to EVER find it if we are not willing to show them the proper way of doing it?

You cannot just place a toddler (the radkier) at a table (Veritas, in this case), and do not point out to them high cubbords (cubbords being the advanced skills) and the lower, more in reach ones (the beginnning skills and information), nor do you tell them food is in there..then they will starve to death, will they not?

it is the same as this path; they will NEVER attain the skills as the toddler will never attain food at that rate.  We must educate them onto the right way, to prevent stupidity (dbz style radki, advanced radki, etc.) to further plague the OEC.

It is my firm belief that one must never have to settle for a way to deal with problems, instead find the source and cure the problem.  We CAN do this if we continue to teach them the proper way.

Be Well.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 06, 2004, 03:04:54 PM
Why does Radki need to exist as a crutch, DownRodeo?  For 5000 years (at least until 1998) people did fine without Radki.  They didn't need some "introductory crutch step" or whatever that messes up your Third Eye Chakra.  I mean, its not like Kiaijutsu is something people have to be "ready to learn."  Its easy enough as is in its basic form.

Radki is useless and doesn't need to exist.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Zake on July 07, 2004, 03:03:03 AM
Radki came from active psy, kendamu?  Interesting.  Out of curiosity, then, how did it get to be considered a ki discipline instead of a psionic one?  I'd have supposed that they would have been quite separate disciplines, especially before the founding of the multi-style meltingpot which is veritas.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on July 07, 2004, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Kendamu

Radki is useless and doesn't need to exist.


"Imagine that every person in the world is enlightened but you. They are all your teachers, each doing just the right things to help you learn perfect patience, perfect wisdom, perfect compassion"

^^ because Ken, it may not be as crap as you first presume, think of it this way, yes, it has no real effect in the same way that 'traditional qi systems' do, however lots of rad chi and 'new age' excercises maybe useful in one simple, proven, pshycological way. "Can you spell 'Placebo effect". Thus it has its uses in that sense, failing that, like the above quote it serves as a reminder that everyone and everything has a role to play in the cosmos.

Also, Ken, when has Kiajutsu ever been 'easy', Kiajustu, Kuji-kiri/-in are useless without good taijutsu and taisabaki, so that throws that out the window, unless you want to contadict Tanamure and Hatsumi?

Enlightenment:
no need to be so condesending, neh? (mind you i can't talk ^^)

 "If they never become interested in this path from their own curiosity (the path of Chi Kung and the martial arts), then how, praytell, how do you expect them to EVER find it if we are not willing to show them the proper way of doing it?:"

I hate to tell you, but our path is not the only path to take my friend, we must not be so dogmatic.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Enlightenment on July 07, 2004, 06:32:17 PM
DownRodeo: agreed, however we are here to learn from one another, are we not? what purpose is there to not teach what is seemingly the right way, or at least for the time being looks like the right path (IMO we can never know ourselves), and instead allow them to linger on thinking of bullshit techniques that dont work, and develop stress within the practitioner (like VxinuyashaxV's technique on devloping power through anger and rage), it doesnt work..it has never been proven (to my knowledge) to ever work, so I stand firm on the belief that...if something works, use it; if it doesnt work, then have nothing to do with it, for it is false knowledge.

Forgive me for being an eclectric (spelling?), but I see no need to let them continue on using bullshit; unknowing that it is, infact bullshit, if we have so much that is NOT bullshit to teach them.

Be Well.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 07, 2004, 08:27:24 PM
DownRodeo:

Kiaijutsu is not just a Bujinkan art.  The Bujinkan have their own Kiaijutsu, but you do not have to have good Bujinkan Taijutsu in order to Kiai well.  Saying that is calling every school of swordsmanship to date a bunch of liars and saying that the Scottish never yelled in anyone's faces for combat purposes.  So, yeah, I am going against what Soke said.  And I'm saying it as a former member of the Bujinkan Dojo.  Why don't you wrap your brain around that one for awhile?

As for Radki, you must not have been listening at all.  I helped make Radki.  I know what it is.  I know that its crap.  I'm not just pulling things out of my ass here.  Wanna see me just pull something out of my ass?  Look at Radki.  That's a giant piece of shit right there that collectively came out of about 3 or 4 people's asses in 1998 and 1999.  I was one of those 3 or 4 people.  You can't convince me of Radki having any truth to it.  That's like trying to pull the Immortality Ring scam on Alex Chiu.  It just doesn't work.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on July 08, 2004, 12:44:05 PM
Lol, point taken. (about ass/radiki).

As for kiajustu, unless its taught with proper understanding of posture,timing and movement, i think all that people will end up having, is a psychological edge (which is useful none the less). I have little doubt as to your experiences and abillities in the area of Kiajustu, I trust that you can do them and have experienced them, but i do doubt the methods in which you teach them, i for one think that they should be taught at a proper dojo, not over the internet. Do you think DD became proficient at energy work over the net? I think not...Maybe he gained further understanding of other methods, but he probably (sorry if im presuming loads of stuff DD, its for the sake of this argument :D ) attained proficiency with energy through 'Aikido' not 'internetdo', hence i doubt your teaching (on the net) would be of much use to anyone, at least in the area of Kiajutsu...Don't get me wrong, if you lived over here in the uk, i would be the first to jump up and learn Kiajutsu from yourself, personally, in fact i would consider it a great honour, seriosuly!

You of all people should know Rad Ki is full of s***, because it neglects all posture and timing, which is key not only in Budo, but also in taijiquan and aikido, hell it posture IS qi gong. Energy will simply not flow properly if a person is not taught exactly the right postures and kame (stances, for people other than ken). As you said before, energy does follow some sorts of rules in concern with the body, ie: about trying to pull in energy through your palms, and so on (i think it was you), this also apply's to Kiajutsu. Hence to me Kia's are just 'scary's shouts' unless one has a strong grasp of taisabaki, body conditioning, timing and posture, not matter what art you do, and i think unless others see yourself and DD in motion they just won't 'get it'.

The same goes for the 'online' teaching of Kiajustu, if you made a video though, with diagrams of the meridians and correct postures with explanations and the like, perhaps , no I WOULD, EAT MY WORDS!  :eek: The area of Kiajustu is too large, and no matter what you say it is NOT simple, (unless you want to do it like an ass) it needs a comprehensive guide considering all factors, which i beleive YOU and other Veritas staff are well capable of devising. I guess its wether or not you can be bothered to pull something of worth out of your ass instead, neh?  :D  

Now that is something i beleive would benifit people no end Ken (in my humble (and most probably useless) opinion).

ps. im interested as to why you are a 'former' Bujinkan member? (Im no Bujinkan member either, i learn from a Bujinkan trained instructor, but we pledge no allegiance to it officially, as we also learn from the Genbukan as well). How long did you do it for and so on....?

*edit* err.... sorry to go off topic (awaits bannage)
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 08, 2004, 10:08:51 PM
I didn't learn Kiaijutsu over the internet.  I wrote the damn articles that people use to learn it over the internet.  Posture, timing, etc. are mentioned all the time when I bring up advice about Kiaijutsu and I believe they are also mentioned in the articles.

You're treating me like I've never been to a dojo before.  I've defended my and other people's lives before on several occasions.  Just last week I had to defend myself from a guy who was stupid enough to have a grudge from two years ago.  Was Kiaijutsu involved in how I beat him?  Yes!  It always is.  Even if you're not yelling, the Kiai is still there.

If I were as much of a fraud and/or newbie as you think I am to be, I wouldn't be alive right now.  I'd be about 6 feet in the ground with a nice puncture wound in a vital spot.

As for teaching Kiaijutsu online, I only hope to appeal to martial artists who want to expand on that "yelling thing my sensei says to do in forms."  People who know nothing about anything are welcome to try learning from my articles, but they're not my target audience.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on July 11, 2004, 03:33:30 PM
Ken, i was not being sacastic, i believe you know what your talking about, i can tell from the way you present your knowledge and i can also tell that it has been well researched, my point was that i thought people (without real life experience in these matters) wouldn't be able to take much from your articles, as i said before i would be honoured to learn from you, in person. I would not mock someone online i did not know, that would be stupid of me, i only mock people that I KNOW deserve it!  :D

If i didn't think you had even been in a dojo (and were'nt a proficient martial artist) i wouldn't be wasting my time here replying to you. I apologise for over-looking what you had written about posture and timing in your articles, but i still beleive that they are difficult to teach over the net and i maintain that there still should be more emphasis on them.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 12, 2004, 01:48:34 PM
Point taken.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: scorpions_hellfire on July 21, 2004, 11:40:48 PM
I dont know a lot about this site or about chi and martial arts but i will be looking and Kendamus' articles with great interest.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: BlacK on July 31, 2004, 07:51:09 AM
Uh, oops. I read page one only and wrote this reply. It moved on since then, but to go back to the main point (Since I aint writing this much for nothin...)

Sorry that its now totally off-topic. Read it if you care. :P

From my experience, trying to teach Rad-Ki practitioners doesnt help. We can say all we like that they arent going to achive anything, and there are better ways, and they are missing the point, but in the end they (The average Rad-Ki practitioner, as well described by Mysticus) will simply not listen. It verges on religious, the strength of beliefe they seem to have in thier 'system' of energy work. Would you tell a Christian that he was wrong, if you KNEW for certain that he was? And if you did, would he listen?

I think that in general, it would be a near impossible task to go around educating the entire Rad-Ki community, and a waste of time. Use this time to improve your own skills and gain knowledge, then when the members of the Rad-Ki community become disillusioned with thier 'art' and move on, you are in a better position to help them grow into a better energy practitioner.

Mysticus, if someone had told you, all those years back, that what you were doing isnt going to get you anywhere, would ou have accepted thier advice? And would it really have helped? Dont you think its better you found out yourself, and are now better suited to aiding other such individuals?

In conclusion, I believe that the Rad-Ki community is best left alone. Think of it as a nursery, or play-group for the babies of the OEC if you will. They learn nothing much of worth, but it generally teaches them how to act and learn in such communities, so they will learn better when they get to some real information.
Title: Ahem
Post by: Koujiryuu on July 31, 2004, 09:20:52 AM
"I think that in general, it would be a near impossible task to go around educating the entire Rad-Ki community, and a waste of time. Use this time to improve your own skills and gain knowledge, then when the members of the Rad-Ki community become disillusioned with thier 'art' and move on, you are in a better position to help them grow into a better energy practitioner."

The thing is, because of the efforts of Kendamu, Mystickal, Mad Daoist, Donjitsu, and myself over a period of 5 years, Radki is pretty much nonexistant. I know of no 'radki' sites with over 30 members active. Compare this to 2000-2001, when there were multiple sites with over 300 members each.

Even Halo's Hideout went traditional (or as close to it as they could get :/), and that was the absolute pinnacle of lunacy. Radki basically doesn't exist anymore, for good reason. If there are anymore such sites, I'm sure myself and Kendamu will root them out and turn them traditional.

As has been stated previously, radki has been discredited. Anyone who still practices it must be kidding themselves...back when MisteryShadow's manual was the only thing around on 'Combat Ki', and we didn't know any better, it was excusable. Those in the know seeked out reeducation in qigong, taiji, wing chun, aikido, etc. With the completion of my own works in the articles section, and the 'new' methods on Ki Teachings, there is no excuse to continue such practices..
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on August 20, 2004, 02:58:39 PM
Kouji's right.  There is no excuse anymore.  That, and Radki is even worse than it was back 5 years ago when I was practicing it.  At least back then we had breath methods to go along with my wild visualizations and Chi Blasts that later evolved into Kiaijutsu.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: cryonics on October 15, 2004, 09:18:01 PM
i think before learning the power up technique you should learn the grounding technique (so your Qi dosent burn out)
Title: ...
Post by: Koujiryuu on October 15, 2004, 11:21:29 PM
Did you even read this thread in it's entirety? There is no such thing as a "power up". Grounding is a psionic technique, not a qigong technique.
 
I think you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 31, 2004, 11:46:13 PM
I started out with radki too.  When I first started researching ki in the summer of 2001, almost every place I went to was a radki site with at least 100 active members.  As time moved on, however, these communities became less and less active.  At the summer of 2002 there were significantly less posts in these communities.  By the summer of 2003 most radki sites were practically dead.  You were lucky if you saw one update or post in 2 month period.  Now, in year 2004, radki is just a joke.  Most radki sites are completely dead if not removed.  Any remaining radki community is crawling to a slow and painful death.

Radki was a fad, propagated by a few OEC members testing out a hybrid style of psionics and DBZ, and sustained by the ongoing popularity of the recently dubbed anime DBZ.  Now, in 2004, DBZ is barely shown on television anymore, its popularity is dropping, people are realizing radki doesn’t work, and radki is slowly dropping out of existence.  The FAD is over.

There is no real need to fight radkiism.  Radki communities are dead, unsupported, and fairly bastardized.  Their skeleton of support has been stripped and they are crumbling fast.  Any more attacks on radki communities are just beating a dead horse.

People will go to these sites, realize they are dead, and leave.  If they don’t, they will learn eventually.  If they try practicing the techniques, they will learn eventually that they don’t work and will either drop out, meaning that they weren’t really meant for energy work in the first place, or will start researching more.  Even the community leaders, which probably know darn well already that radki doesn’t work, will convert over to more traditional methods.

In the end, everyone will find their way to the active, credible portions of the OEC.  There is no need to force this on of people.  Let them have the experience of going to a website and realizing it’s dead.  Let them have the experience of reading bullshit and finding out it doesn’t work.  It is a way of learning valuable life lessons such as recognizing bullshit and fraud and learning when your approach to a situation should be altered.  People will not only find their way to the correct portions of the OEC but will have learned how to analyze information for themselves and think maturely as well.
Title: Radical ki
Post by: TwilightSociety on November 21, 2004, 05:25:53 AM
Firstly Radical Ki is nothing like any form of internal martail arts or any form of energy arts. It's a name given to people who try to do things from a cartoon. You cannot justify it or say that there close to real techniques so there may be some truth to it because it's misleading.

The thing that thiefdeath said about allowing them to go an experiance it themselfs is not a good idea. From my years of being online, I have helped hundreds of people. Answering questions, giving advice, offering exercises and techniques. The problem many people have is that they start off with Radical Ki, they learn bad habits. They focus on physical sensations which is not energy. They get a belief system into there mind, which only they can work around. And really it screws them up because unless they are really willing to learn, they will train to a point that they cannot progress. That is why so many people online talk about ki balls, there experiances at that level and so on. The reason they talk about this stuff is becasue they have picked many bad habits up which are very hard to lose and it's halted any real progression.

Thanks

Simon
Title: *clears throat*
Post by: Frozen on November 21, 2004, 08:55:47 AM
Quote from: BlacK

I think that in general, it would be a near impossible task to go around educating the entire Rad-Ki community, and a waste of time. Use this time to improve your own skills and gain knowledge, then when the members of the Rad-Ki community become disillusioned with thier 'art' and move on, you are in a better position to help them grow into a better energy practitioner.


Wrong. It is not a waste of time educating the entire Rad-ki community. By educating others we actually can educate ourselves. When you attempt to teach a person, you flip through the pages of your own knowledge, and come to understand even further what you learned. If you do not understand what someone else has taught you, you cannot begin to teach another. By helping along some confused newbies, you gain more than you lose.

Sure, I was once a radki kid. In the Summer of 2002? I was a member of TUS. Then I saw a post about Veritas... once I came here, I learned the error of my ways, and reformed until you see me as I am. Then, I stayed a member for quite some time... and learned a lot in a short amount of time. In turn I educated a good many people who came into various sites about why their ways were incorrect. I didn't exactly go on a crusade against it like Koujiryuu, Kendamu, etc. But I did my part, and will continue to do so.

Radki and Tradki were once very unbalanced. There were 10 radki sites for every 1 tradki site. Now, who can say those numbers remain the same? No one can say that with any truth. There remain a few inactive websites dotted here and there over the expanse of internet, but surely not as many as before. By helping others, we realized exactly how much we knew. Once you try to show someone the falsehood of their beliefs, you come to see how much knowledge is packed into your own head.
Through attempting to enlighten others, I gained so much.
~Frozen
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on November 21, 2004, 12:02:51 PM
Quote from: TwilightSociety
Firstly Radical Ki is nothing like any form of internal martail arts or any form of energy arts. It's a name given to people who try to do things from a cartoon. You cannot justify it or say that there close to real techniques so there may be some truth to it because it's misleading.

Radki in its originality consisted of a hybrid style of psionics and things from cartoon shows.  It is not entirely one or the other.  That's why it was able to maintain the little sliver of credibility it ever had.  Ask one of the radki creators such as Kendamu about this.

Quote from: TwilightSociety
The thing that thiefdeath said about allowing them to go an experiance it themselfs is not a good idea. From my years of being online, I have helped hundreds of people. Answering questions, giving advice, offering exercises and techniques. The problem many people have is that they start off with Radical Ki, they learn bad habits. They focus on physical sensations which is not energy. They get a belief system into there mind, which only they can work around. And really it screws them up because unless they are really willing to learn, they will train to a point that they cannot progress. That is why so many people online talk about ki balls, there experiances at that level and so on. The reason they talk about this stuff is becasue they have picked many bad habits up which are very hard to lose and it's halted any real progression.

Hmm you might have a point here.  When I posted my previous reply in this thread, I was not entirely aware of all the detriments of radki.  Since then I have  been more interested in the subject (not to practice it of course) and have done some research on it.  I have discovered more of the detriments of it such as the ones you have mentioned.  I realize now that the detriments of radki possibly outweigh the compliments (such as the 'life lessons' i mentioned) and perhaps an active role in halting the practice of radki does need to be taken.

Simon says halt radki! :p
Title: Internal Arts
Post by: TwilightSociety on November 21, 2004, 12:51:06 PM
Quote
Radki in its originality consisted of a hybrid style of psionics and things from cartoon shows. It is not entirely one or the other. That's why it was able to maintain the little sliver of credibility it ever had. Ask one of the radki creators such as Kendamu about this.


Hey Thiefdeath,
This i still have to disagree on. You see Radical Ki is if you like a super form of internal martial arts. No one i know of have ever heard of as created energy balls from there internal arts training and blown someone else up. Not something your likely to see at any tournament soon. True with internal martial arts you can do some amazing things but they even take a lifetime to learn. No one will ever be able to do what they try to do with Radical Ki. Really you are comparing it to the wrong form of energy manipulation.

Thanks

Simon
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on January 09, 2005, 01:27:50 PM
So, anyone new in the Radki business lately?
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Xeno on January 19, 2005, 02:36:05 PM
Well I have been interested ever since I read Chiki's post saying he coudl prove radki was real by moving a penicl 5 ft away with his mouth and nose covered. Since I was a psion it pissed me off that someone was using psionics to prove radki real, that was maybe a day our two ago.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on January 21, 2005, 04:21:25 PM
That's anti-cool.

Even if it did prove Radki's mechanics, it doesn't prove its combat effectiveness.

So, Radki is still useless.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on January 22, 2005, 04:57:04 PM
Ill say amen to that.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: kakkarot on January 25, 2005, 05:39:13 AM
Hey, did you know that in tai chi chuan, one of the first postures is that of "holding a chi ball"? But chi balls are so totally useless, so that proves tradchi is useless in combat too!

Oh wait... Not everything in a system is meant to "prove it's combat effectiveness", seeing as most things should focus more on *developing* combat effectiveness rather than proving them. I'm not saying "radki good!", but the arguement against in this case is a bit flawed.

~kakkarot
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Silver_Archer on January 25, 2005, 06:38:09 AM
Er.. Holding the Qi ball, is called holding the Qi ball, because it looks like you are HOLDING A BALL. It isnt a supreme technique of non physical contact attack.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on January 25, 2005, 07:01:19 AM
Quote from: kakkarot
Hey, did you know that in tai chi chuan, one of the first postures is that of "holding a chi ball"? But chi balls are so totally useless, so that proves tradchi is useless in combat too!

Oh wait... Not everything in a system is meant to "prove it's combat effectiveness", seeing as most things should focus more on *developing* combat effectiveness rather than proving them. I'm not saying "radki good!", but the arguement against in this case is a bit flawed.

~kakkarot

 Hmmm...  Who was one of the few people who developed hundreds of techniques that were refined versions of MisteryShadow's crap and eventually COINED the term Radki?  That's right...  me.

So, who probably knows more about Radki than you?  That's right...  me.

Lastly, that means who would know about combat effectiveness in relation to Radki?  You got it...  me.

So my argument is only as flawed as your interpretation of it is.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: kakkarot on January 25, 2005, 10:59:21 AM
This last post of yours is a good argument Kendamu.

The previous posts by yourself and xeno were not because chiki didn't say that moving a pencil was "proof of radki's effectiveness", just proof that it existed (and yes, xeno, I did see where you bitched about that being psi and not radki). So to argue that such a thing isn't proving radki's effectiveness in combat is equivalent to my example about the "holding the qi ball" stance in tai chi.

Now let me explain what it is I'm posting about: I'm not arguing as to whether radki is real or not, I'm pointing out that improper arguments are bad for trying to prove something even if your overall point is correct.

~kakkarot

PS To darkduck, regarding your post in chiki's thread: I realize you're not a novice, which is why your assessments actually count for something. Novices should not be trying to debate the reality of things which are obviously far beyond their ability to assess.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: pod3 on May 09, 2005, 05:43:36 PM
What are the limits of methods taught by Veritas, then?
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: WillowpalmImmortal on May 31, 2005, 12:33:36 PM
I'm glad this website finnaly pulled away from all of that nonsense. 2-3 years ago it seemed like everyone on these forums lived in some kind of cheap japanese cartoon! Anyway, I'm gald to see that people are finnaly starting to pull away from harmful and false teachings.
Oh, and Kendamu, your "way"  leads to nothing but trouble. You don't know what your talking about and those you have "taught" your methods to are only being harmed by them. Plus they hold no relevence in a fight. Stance, posture and correct breathing could overthrough even the most well trained of "Radki enthusists", and that dosent even begin to talk of the power of Taijiquan. There is a reason why things have been done the way they have been done for thousands of years!  Besides the way you are training, you will never even glimpse the iceberg of potential that the human body holds.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on May 31, 2005, 02:02:21 PM
Dude, what the hell are you talking about?? Ken reformed his ways AGGGESS ago...I think you must have misread his posts...He is a Tradz0r winn0r n0w j00 f00l. He is trying to undo the damage he did years ago and Im pretty sure he addresses this in the posts within this thread.
Title: The Falsehood of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SleepWalker on July 07, 2005, 08:06:38 PM
How is something so full of hate rated with 5 stars, the relation of fear and hate amongst you is such a beautiful thing? Or maybe like me you see the fear and wish to rid yourself of it, and inturn rid everyone of it.
 :elephant:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: MONKJE on July 22, 2005, 04:39:21 AM
Radical chi is not a falsehood, first of all, everything from/in between body and spirit is relative, as is father to son, to make the body stronger one must expend energy into the muscles in order for them to expand, Kaioken is when energy is expended to make energy stronger, because when you expend energy you are expanding it and strengthening it.
Cultivating energy is not the same as collecting it you do not cultivate energy, or become more powerful by storing energy in your body, but by using it, just as your muscles become stronger with more use, that is the true nature of the chi.
The body feeds the universe, before universe feeds body, storing energy makes it stale, and is the way of degeneration.

PS: I cannot believe the amount of fuss that has been made due to parallels formed between a cartoon and the real thing, if rad ki is not for you then dont do it, and for God's sake try not to waste time putting limits on your own mind and therefore separating yourself from your own energy, anything is achievable.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Darkduck on July 22, 2005, 05:54:59 AM
I keep finding that funny :smilie: why automatically assume that we put limits on ourselves?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SleepWalker on July 22, 2005, 08:31:50 AM
Radical chi is not a falsehood, first of all, everything from/in between body and spirit is relative, as is father to son, to make the body stronger one must expend energy into the muscles in order for them to expand, Kaioken is when energy is expended to make energy stronger, because when you expend energy you are expanding it and strengthening it.
Cultivating energy is not the same as collecting it you do not cultivate energy, or become more powerful by storing energy in your body, but by using it, just as your muscles become stronger with more use, that is the true nature of the chi.
The body feeds the universe, before universe feeds body, storing energy makes it stale, and is the way of degeneration.

PS: I cannot believe the amount of fuss that has been made due to parallels formed between a cartoon and the real thing, if rad ki is not for you then dont do it, and for God's sake try not to waste time putting limits on your own mind and therefore separating yourself from your own energy, anything is achievable.

Now this to me is something worth listening to, stagnation of chi through absorbing through hands caught me as ludicrous idiocy.
Whichever the direction the chi is flowing in or out it is flowing, stagnation is the direct opposite of that.
I didn't speak upon this in my reply earlier for it was one of the first things I viewed upon my return, it saddened me the limits proposed by some.
Can't is an illusion, fear holds no power in the light of understanding.
I do not imply you limit yourself Mr DarkDuck I just feel that others are, and inturn they push their limitations on the rest.
I much would prefer to hear from the person who first inspired the topic then someone denouncing that person.
This entire thread is built upon anger directed at a person for expressing their belief.
A belief cannot be wrong it simply is what it is.
The matter in which the systematic dismantlement took place was one of arrogance, though it is a confliction in belief it is not stated that this is the case.
Though I am not one fit to judge, as my belief like all others is unproven, the fact of the matter in which the destructive party mentioned ideas such definitive knowledge leads me to believe that knowledge is lacking for he claims things cannot be.
This is merely my belief.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Silver_Archer on July 22, 2005, 09:03:26 AM
I find it most amusing that this ideology still finds some defenders. The world is a strange place, you'd have thought everyone has moved on by now.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SleepWalker on July 22, 2005, 09:10:45 AM
Any ideal is worth defending, it is someones belief and they have a right to it.
To act as this were not the case is to claim superiority, superiority claimed by an entity is far different then self-evident superiority.
In essence, knowing what it takes to be cool. :elephant:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Silver_Archer on July 22, 2005, 10:33:35 PM
Where in my post did criticise 'MONKJE' for defending 'Radki'? That's right. Nowhere. I simply stated my amusement regarding the fact that there are still people defending 'Radki'. In other words, I was pointing and laughing. Deal with it. Have a nice day. :)
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SleepWalker on July 23, 2005, 03:01:24 AM
And you are very welcome to do so, enjoy
agreement beats argument any day  :elephant: and the elephant is possibly even better
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Lone Gunman on July 27, 2005, 11:47:23 PM
Thanks for the post. Indeed most of the major areas surrounding false Qi practices have been covered. I personally believe that the human body is capable of many things, some more unbelievable than others, but questioning the authority should only be done when one develops his or her own immense skill. I'm getting sick of the lies relating to martial arts and the misconceptions related to energy work.

Just a quick note, a "Buddhist or Taoist" posture does not necessarily have to mean you convert to that religion. Eastern Qi practices can be for ANYONE of ANY belief. A simple Buddhist posture for example, is the Buddha Palm. Stand in a comfortable horse stance and place the palms together in a prayer-like position neatly in front of your chest, not too high and not too low. Feel the energy flowing through you. I can go through so many different techniques but for now I would just like to say that however one progresses, it will be slow. It will take time. And the limits are only in place when we find the human potenetial and I believe that has not yet been fully grasped by any martial artist or practioner of any art. There is always room for improvement somewhere, somehow.

And just one last thing. DRAGON BALL Z is NOT real. Nor is the original DB and DBGT.

Lone Gunman
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Darkduck on July 28, 2005, 03:01:52 AM

And just one last thing. DRAGON BALL Z is NOT real. Nor is the original DB and DBGT.

Lone Gunman

(http://forumspam.articblue.nl/user_related/obvious/images/0674.jpg)
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SleepWalker on July 28, 2005, 03:09:49 AM
That's awesome, and I beat the email notification to it.
I feel that would be useful alot.

It's a fun cartoon give it that much, it's hilarious
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: elixerpalm on August 15, 2005, 10:46:19 PM
There is only one energy that permeates all things living and non-living. Although there is only one energy, you can find thousands of expressions of this one force that flows.
Th trick to being able to do things such as moving people or objects is to embrace a child-like mind set and have faith. Next, you need to relax physically and mentally and this is accomlished by way of meditation. Either of the sitting or standing variety. Standing is the fastest way to gain control over this force and express more of it.
Then the mind is used for many reasons- The mind is part of the key to projecting the force..
write me an E-mail if you wish to know more
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Dark_Wanderer on August 24, 2005, 02:34:55 PM
Hey I am DEFINATELY not defending the teens who watched too much DBZ and decided they could be a super saiyan :p
and I am well aware that Radical chi is for the most part a load of crap. However, there is one thing I'd like to say. ANYTHING is possible with time, training, concentration, belief, and devotion. The reason why noone while ever be able to create something similar to a Kamehameha or Ryu's Shinku Hadoken is because none of you believe that it is possible. Therefore, you have defeated yourselves before you even start. Who knows, maybe someday some psycho with WAY too much time on their hands will create something that destructive. Very unlikely and improabable yes, but NOT impossible. Anyways that was my two bits :biggrin: Keep practicing and remember to always brush up on your basics. Basics are the building blocks of everything else. Take care and good luck in your training.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on September 07, 2005, 02:38:48 AM
Originally posted by the knowledgable Kendamu and Donjitsu2 here: http://www.ki-teachings.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1 (http://www.ki-teachings.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1)


This is for all those who still question that radki is useless. I will
pick apart the most basic and most referenced techniques in the radki
“canon” of techniques.

It seems to me that many of you radki kids are missing the point. We
have never said that being able to attack, defend, move, or knock out a
person without making physical contact is impossible. In fact, numerous
times we speak at great length regarding to use of “no touch” power. We
simple refer to skills that enable one to harm another with out making
physical contact as the Lin Kong Jing (powerful empty force) or
Kiaijutsu. We have never said that with ki training you cannot become stronger
or faster. We simply call those methods by different names like nei
jing training (for internal power) or Speed Gong training (gong means
skill, this skill is from the Shaolin temple). We have never said that you
cannot have incredible amounts of power in your strikes. We just call
these methods shi jing, fa jing, ect… You see just because a skill seems
“esoteric” doesn’t mean we are going to write it off as radki or
“fluff”. It is the method by which you are attempting to gain certain
“esoteric” skills that we may call into question. Not all training method are
created equal. The radki training may promise certain desirable skills.
But do they deliver? Through out its history radki has never been able
to “walk the walk” so to speak (though radki practitioners do try to
“talk the talk”). The traditional methods deliver every you could ever
want out of martial training system: Health, fighting ability, and even
the legendary powers so many seek. You just need to put in the training
time. For those of you who still feel that radki has some thing to
offer I have listed below the three most common radki techniques and they
form the basis of all other techniques. (I have not listed the ki ball
exercise because in reality the ki ball exercise is a traditional
training method for healers). Along with a discussion on the Ki blast, Ki
shield, and Power up, I have also included a discussion on the incorrect
radki usage of the word “jing”.


One of the first things you will have to understand about the proper
usage of Qi is the “4 Big Points”. The four big points are the things
truly necessary in utilizing your qi in daily life and especially in
combat. Without them your techniques will be, what Yiquan creator Wang,
Hsiang Zhai referred to as, “lifeless and without real power or spirit”.
The four big points to utilizing qi for combat are:

1. Correct Posture
2. Correct Breathing- (either Buddhist style of Taoist style)
3. Correct Bodily Mechanics
4. Correct use of Intent



**"Ki blast: Place one hand out and make a chi ball. Begin to let
energy flow into that ball making it so big that it’s as big as your hand
and you can grip it all the way around. When a ball of energy is made
that big, begin to fill your arm with Chi itself and look at your target
drawing imaginary lines at it so you may guide your chi blast along
those lines. Unleash the energy you had in your arm out onto the ball of
energy and let it propel it out to the target. (To make the chi blast
damage whoever ... see the blast going through them making a hole in
them.) "**

Notice how at no point does this description mention anything about
body mechanics, breathing, or posture. All the practitioner is given is a
bunch of visualization. And might I add that this is improper use of
visualization (intent). I mean would anyone expect to be able to throw a
good strong punch or kick without first being well versed in posture,
body mechanics, breathing and intent. Of course not. Even modern boxing
with its simplistic approach to throwing punches has rules for
breathing, posture, body mechanics, and focus (intent). At its very base level
you are taught to punch by having one foot in front of the other,
spread about shoulder width apart, shoulders square with your opponent,
guard up, head up, and to stay “light on your toes”. That is just proper
posture for boxing, which is much more simplistic then any other martial
art. I could write a whole paper on the mechanics of a boxer’s punch,
which would include focus, posture, body mechanics, and breathing. Yet,
in this description of a radki technique, when we are working with a
very subtle energy, we are given nothing to work with but visualization.
Is that a basis for a proper technique? I think not. While we are on
the subject of visualization: the radki kids didn’t even get that right.
We all know qi (ki) is led by the mind (yi). But, do we really need to
“lead our qi by the hand”? Of course not, qi has been flowing through
you since your conception – with you having to even think about it. So,
if we simply wish our qi to flow out of our bodies all we need to do is
extend it beyond our body. With enough internal power you can extend
your qi a great distance. However, to build up the kind of internal power
needed for that and especially the kind of internal power needed for
combat you will need to be doing some internal power training (like zhan
zhuang). That is another thing radki sites never mention: nei jing
(internal power) training. If you are lucky you might get a description of
basic seated meditation or I’ve even seen a SECTION of the Ba Duan Jin
(a basic qigong). Trust me that isn’t nearly enough to build the kind
of power needed for martial applications.





**Ki Shield : Place both hands out in front of you . See within your
mind energy flowing from your Kae-dem into your arms . Then from your
arms to your hands . You will know when the energy is there . When you can
feel the energy in your palms, within your mind make the energy itself
expand around your hand"s however big you want it to be (the smaller
the easier ) . Hold it there at however big you have gotten it to be and
begin to visualize that Energy field you created upon your hands
turning into glass. The harder you focus on that glass ( shield ) the thicker
it will be."**

Now this one is the funny one. It pretty does all the bad things the ki
blast does, as I mentioned above. However, it goes a step further:
manipulating qi after it has left your body.
With that said lets look at the why of this technique. Why would be
need a ki shield? To block “ki attacks”. Well, that won’t work because all
you doing is bringing ki out and letting surround you (which you
actually aren’t doing for those of you who didn’t read the above links). How
is that any different from the ki that is already on your skin. A
non-physical attack obviously has no problem going through the qi that flows
on the Lou channels of your skin so why would it have trouble if you
somehow managed to get qi to form a shell around you (just off the
surface of your skin)? It wouldn’t. Then maybe it is for defending against
physical attacks. Sorry, no. Since you aren’t actually building a shield
of qi around you, you wouldn’t stopping anything.





**"Power Up: This technique is as strong as you make it.
Sit down, in your mind and begin to draw in energy all over into all
points of your body. Have your eyes shut and just let energy flow into
you Now do this for however long you wish ( the longer the bigger the
power ) . When you feel that you have as much energy that you want, stand
up and have your head bowed sort of like a dramatic scene. Picture the
worse thing that has happened to you like perhaps a death in your
family and let that get you angry. When you get angry and you know it have
your eyes and face shoot your eyes open and yell letting out that energy
like a flare out which will probably quadruple your power for around 10
seconds or however you hold it out ( do this when your not tired but
hyper for better results )."**

Along with breaking the same rules as the ki blast this one also goes a
step further – just in a different direction then the ki shield. This
technique has you drawing in qi from points all over your body. The
reason this is wrong is that there are certain points on your body where qi
actually flows out from (like the palms and fingertips). Drawing energy
in from points like that will cause stagnation of qi. Qi stagnation is
a very bad thing and can cause severe illness. It also has you to make
yourself feel angry. Working with energy and being angry is bad for the
spirit and can also cause illness and damage to the internal organs.
When do energy practice you will want to be calm and focused, not angry.
Xingyiquan master Dai Long Bang (1750 a.d) echoes these views in one of
his treatises on internal power training:
“Before practice - The stomach should be neither too full nor too
empty, the mind should not be preoccupied with other affairs, do not
practice when angry. When hungry one has no energy, too full and the stomach
will be injured. Extraneous thoughts harm the brain. Anger harms the
spirit.”

The author of this technique also disregards exactly ‘how’ to flare out
the energy (as if one could do such a thing).

Often I hear the radki-ka talk about Jing. Except they seem to have
really bastardized this word. Within the radki community jing is meant to
mean “compressed ki”. This is total crap and anyone with any knowledge
of internal martial arts can tell you otherwise. Jing is a Chinese word
and has two different meanings (a Chinese homonym if you will). In one
sense Jing relates to the three treasures of man and translates to mean
“essence”. It is the primal energy you get from you parents that makes
you, physically you. It is closely related to bodily fluids, especially
semen and menstrual blood. In another sense jing can be seen as meaning
“skillful or refined strength” (as opposed to brute strength). However,
it can also mean “internal strength”, as it has come to be translated
by modern internal martial artists (for good reason I assure you). I,
and many other internal martial artists, translate the word jing both
ways at the same time: jing – “internally refined strength or power”. Any
other translations outside the already established translations of this
Chinese word are incorrect. There is simply no other way of saying it.
We know what the word means and it CANNOT be translated to mean
anything close to “compressed ki”. Sorry, but deal with it.

I think that should just about do it. Feel free to post questions or
arguments.


I will probably only post once here.  I'm a 6 and a half year ki user, and as such, I've been around long enough that I decided, upon finding this board, that I'd interject on the stuff for Radical Ki.  Please read this post with an open mind, not a closed one like I've found so many Traditional Ki users to have.

I was trained before the split between Radical Ki and Traditional Ki happened.  I follow the middle path, using both when necessary, and I always have, and always will.
Radical Ki was originally not a method of duplicating Dragonball Z techniques so much as it was duplicating techniques in general, however, DBZers and Roleplayers came along, and started acting like idiots...(God, I STILL Can remember morons going and saying "I can do a Kamehameha!"), and then the split happened as a problem because of that.  I also remember how everyone that went to the Traditional Ki side said that everyone in Radical Ki's techniques were flawed because "The techniques you're using are messing with your mind."  Anything said against this that had any proof was also sent straight into that, or chalked up as BS right then and there, no listening to the person even if they had an actual event happen in front of them that had no way of being explained unless they were into radical ki in the first place.
However, this doesn't mean that Radical Ki people may not have stumbled upon SOMETHING.  I once was in the middle of a pool with some kid I knew that I was training, and joking around with him, about ki techniques and the like, and he tried something, and part of his hair went from straight black to blond in several parts for the middle...possibly due to his aura, or possibly due to something else.  This could be that "Super Saiyan" thing everyone's looking for, or some weird aura transformation, or something totally different.  I don't know.  But once I saw that, along with his little brother seeing it as well, I realized that argueing with normal people was futile, gave the normal ki boards the finger, and went on my own path.

I agree with Koujiryuu on the problems with the ki techniques.  Visualization is a problem for manipulating ki.  However, back when I started, there was only breathing techniques, and MysteryShadow didn't have those explained fully on his webpage.
HOWEVER, manipulating Ki outside your body IS possible, since your mind makes a temporary aura around it, keeping it stable to a certain point.  The further it goes away from your body, the less stable it gets...so stuff like the Kamehameha isn't possible.  Manipulating ki over your body in your aura is all good and all, but it doesn't work against some stuff.  For example, one of my students figured out how to make a Ki Knife, and it went through that natural body shield like a hot knife through butter.  It took me about 5 attempts to grab it with my ki to yank that stupid thing out, too.  It hurt badly, and gave me a headache.  However, a short range ki shield worked wonders against it going into my body.

Ki blasts, as MysteryShadow taught, also worked well at first, but people quickly made stupid versions of those.  I remember teaching a student some of the techniques for Ki blasts that were on his site, and me and him feeling the pressure from the two ki blasts colliding, about 5 and a half years ago.

However, as I've come to go through ki, and worked out how it worked with the body, I realized that though the breathing techniques do work...there's some problems with them as well.  Energy from your surroundings isn't meant to be taken in like the techniques have you take it in.  It's supposed to be used, but it isn't supposed to be ingested into your aura so easily.  Using your own power, though weaker in the short run, keeps blockages from happening, and helps you get in touch with it easier.  Your ki is hooked up to your nervous system, so it's possible to connect with it, and "Talk" with it...asking it questions mentally, and eventually hearing it's replies.

For Powerups, breathing exercises works well, if you wish to risk chakra damage in the long run, like I felt when I touched it.  It could just be that it'll damage me alone, but I'd rather not risk it myself, and so I chose to keep from having to use it as much as possible.
Ki users back when I started out documented working Ki shields, however, when the split between Radical Ki and Traditional Ki happened, most of that information was lost, due to forum moderators, or web people that weren't bright enough to realize that the technique worked.
For example.
One of my first trainers in Ki, was a man that went by the name of Aaron.  He was asked by a friend to test a Kaio Ken powerup technique that they had developed.  He was somewhat injured at the time.  Aaron tried the technique, and his injury started spraying blood out like a small, tiny geyser.  So please, don't claim that most of this stuff doesn't work, or that the stuff possibly can't work.  Radical Ki was originally just people trying to see if techniques could be duplicated from anime.  Not a whole split path, not this, or that, just if it worked.

For those that wish to have a "Powerup" that works well under any situation, and doesn't have these problems, I'll put a working Kaio Ken technique that I got my hands on before it was lost.  Feel free to call it what you wish, but don't re-name it, since the technique isn't yours, nor was made by you.

Kaio Ken

First off, you'll have to know what an average pyramid looks like with four sides.  Visualize it, and now imagine another one, upside down, so they're connected at the base.  Do you know what I'm talking about?  It looks something like this:
/|\
\|/
Now, make one of those around your tan tien.  not a filled in one with ki, just the walls made out of ki, all connected to be a perfect crystal like that.
If you wish to double the output, make another one, somewhat bigger, over the one you just made.
Tripling the output of ki that's being magnified by these basic lenses would be to make yet another one around the first two.
And So on, and Ect.
I have tested this technique, and gotten immediate results every time, as well as the creator, who's lost to the internet, by now.

However, this does not work without a secondary technique, to help focus it.  You have to focus your aura, imagining it, and willing it to shift so it will hold the ki in, and let it shift your body, instead of dissipating rapidly like normal ki techniques do.

Go ahead and try it.  I've felt ki leaving my body doubled, tripled, or even more for the rate of how much ki is going out of my body.

Do you understand now?  This is only one of many techniques that was lost because people decided, immediately, that Traditional Ki was right, and anyone studying Radical Ki, or anything automatically associated with it, was wrong.

In reference to your post, Dark_Wanderer, on the idea of the Shinkuu Hadouken, have you ever tried making a ki ball inside a ki ball?  That's pretty much what I figured he was doing, and that seems to work effectively for an attack, because his attack hit multiple times.  The only way that would work would be for someone to make a ki ball inside another ki ball.

And As for the Moderator that will review this post, please make sure this doesn't get deleted.  I've been trying to help people that will listen realize things like this, but nearly noone ever does anymore.  They always think that Radical Ki will give them instant power, or Traditional Ki is absolutely right, and never go and look at the middle ground, or the fact that there IS a middle ground, and for true understanding of how ki works, you have to follow the middle ground, and not go on one path, or the other.
Ranma Bushiko
RanmaB@yahoo.com

Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on September 07, 2005, 08:45:36 AM
I will probably only post once here.  I'm a 6 and a half year ki user, and as such, I've been around long enough that I decided, upon finding this board, that I'd interject on the stuff for Radical Ki.  Please read this post with an open mind, not a closed one like I've found so many Traditional Ki users to have.

You're 6 and a half years old? Or do you have been using Rad ki Techniques for 6 and a half years? I'll assume you meant the latter, in which case I will state that I'm pretty sure 'radki' as a concept has existed only 4 and a half years. Im sure Kendamu could clear that one up properly for us, however. Kendamu helped create radki mixing the concepts of psionics and qi. I assume they did this because the mere Idea of psionics mixed with chi is probably the closest thing one could get to copying anime techniques with a tiny (and I mean tiny) shred of credibility.   Adressing your second sentence, concerning 'open-mindedness', I would like to ask you a question; Have you ever considered that YOU are totally and uterrly NOT open minded? You make a small attempt to validate your style of energy work with us by saying some cryptic prattle about 'I walk the path in the middle', when in actual fact what you have suggested in your post is plain, straight and simple new age radki rubbish. You say you agree with Kouji's post and yet you take none of the important factors of real energy work into account other than breathing (ie: posture, body mechanics ect.) So stop trying to say you adhere to traditional qigong principles when you still quite clearly live in a fantasy world. At best you are just practicing some inefficient variant of psionics, of which I am now sure is a suggestion that all the psions will be highly offended at.

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I was trained before the split between Radical Ki and Traditional Ki happened.  I follow the middle path, using both when necessary, and I always have, and always will.

There was NEVER a split. Radki was never part of actual qigong, or any other eastern or western energetic practice.

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Radical Ki was originally not a method of duplicating Dragonball Z techniques so much as it was duplicating techniques in general, however, DBZers and Roleplayers came along, and started acting like idiots...(God, I STILL Can remember morons going and saying "I can do a Kamehameha!"), and then the split happened as a problem because of that.  I also remember how everyone that went to the Traditional Ki side said that everyone in Radical Ki's techniques were flawed because "The techniques you're using are messing with your mind."  Anything said against this that had any proof was also sent straight into that, or chalked up as BS right then and there, no listening to the person even if they had an actual event happen in front of them that had no way of being explained unless they were into radical ki in the first place.
However, this doesn't mean that Radical Ki people may not have stumbled upon SOMETHING.  I once was in the middle of a pool with some kid I knew that I was training, and joking around with him, about ki techniques and the like, and he tried something, and part of his hair went from straight black to blond in several parts for the middle...possibly due to his aura, or possibly due to something else.  This could be that "Super Saiyan" thing everyone's looking for, or some weird aura transformation, or something totally different.  I don't know.  But once I saw that, along with his little brother seeing it as well, I realized that argueing with normal people was futile, gave the normal ki boards the finger, and went on my own path.

You have students? Someone who states that uncertainty of what radical ki actually is, whether its of any REAL benefit, (and so on)  is teaching people about it?

Evidence: "this doesn't mean Radical Ki people may not have stumbled upon SOMETHING" (To clarify: You teach 'something' meaning, you don't actually know what you are teaching. It would help if you really told us what the benifit was, as most people wont see the benefit of your hair changing to a bright un-natural colour.  Don't know about you, but I can only see the people who make hair dye products getting excited about the above passage.)

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I agree with Koujiryuu on the problems with the ki techniques.  Visualization is a problem for manipulating ki.  However, back when I started, there was only breathing techniques, and MysteryShadow didn't have those explained fully on his webpage.


So, essentially you are saying what was available was only an aspect of energy work, and that aspect in itself was only partially complete. Scant at best then?

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HOWEVER, manipulating Ki outside your body IS possible, since your mind makes a temporary aura around it, keeping it stable to a certain point.  The further it goes away from your body, the less stable it gets...so stuff like the Kamehameha isn't possible.  Manipulating ki over your body in your aura is all good and all, but it doesn't work against some stuff.  For example, one of my students figured out how to make a Ki Knife, and it went through that natural body shield like a hot knife through butter.  It took me about 5 attempts to grab it with my ki to yank that stupid thing out, too.  It hurt badly, and gave me a headache.  However, a short range ki shield worked wonders against it going into my body.


Again, this all sounds like a terribly infantile version of psionics. Once again I am shocked that you have students, especially since you have trouble dealing with their 'ki-knife' attack!


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Ki blasts, as MysteryShadow taught, also worked well at first, but people quickly made stupid versions of those.  I remember teaching a student some of the techniques for Ki blasts that were on his site, and me and him feeling the pressure from the two ki blasts colliding, about 5 and a half years ago.

So, assuming radki existed before it actually did, you, after training in the discipline for only a year were able to not only learn the ki blast technique, but to teach it to another to the degree that both you and him were able to 'feel the pressure'? This is a remarkable feat! Especially since many people who train for such simmilair feats, such as Lin Kong Jing/empty force and
Kiaijutsu, require the time of their whole life to master such powers. ***NOTE***If you do care to rebuttle to this post, I would like to ask how long the pressure was felt for? Perhaps it is better to ask how long the duration of both of your 'blasts' lasted for instead...

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However, as I've come to go through ki, and worked out how it worked with the body, I realized that though the breathing techniques do work...there's some problems with them as well.  Energy from your surroundings isn't meant to be taken in like the techniques have you take it in.  It's supposed to be used, but it isn't supposed to be ingested into your aura so easily.  Using your own power, though weaker in the short run, keeps blockages from happening, and helps you get in touch with it easier.  Your ki is hooked up to your nervous system, so it's possible to connect with it, and "Talk" with it...asking it questions mentally, and eventually hearing it's replies.

Do you care to list the problems breathing creates? I for one know that when I breathe I stay alive :) I don't have many problems with breathing... If your second and third sentences are an attempt to adress some of the problems, they don't make a lot of sense and don't have much to do with breathing.

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For Powerups, breathing exercises works well, if you wish to risk chakra damage in the long run, like I felt when I touched it.  It could just be that it'll damage me alone, but I'd rather not risk it myself, and so I chose to keep from having to use it as much as possible.
Ki users back when I started out documented working Ki shields, however, when the split between Radical Ki and Traditional Ki happened, most of that information was lost, due to forum moderators, or web people that weren't bright enough to realize that the technique worked.
For example.
One of my first trainers in Ki, was a man that went by the name of Aaron.  He was asked by a friend to test a Kaio Ken powerup technique that they had developed.  He was somewhat injured at the time.  Aaron tried the technique, and his injury started spraying blood out like a small, tiny geyser.  So please, don't claim that most of this stuff doesn't work, or that the stuff possibly can't work.  Radical Ki was originally just people trying to see if techniques could be duplicated from anime.  Not a whole split path, not this, or that, just if it worked.

See you lost me right when you said 'power ups', I know its only semantics, but its not a good idea to say in one instance "These morons who said they could do Kamaehama!!" and then to say/use terminology like, "For powerups" or "Kaio ken", it doesn't help you in the slightest. Also I would like to add that most traditional qi practicies would laugh at the idea of a 'ki shield'. You are arguing against 5000+ years of tried, tested and established energy manipulation/cultivation systems. See Darduck's articles on qi gong and the other 'body energy' articles here for further details: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php?board=71.0.

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For those that wish to have a "Powerup" that works well under any situation, and doesn't have these problems, I'll put a working Kaio Ken technique that I got my hands on before it was lost.  Feel free to call it what you wish, but don't re-name it, since the technique isn't yours, nor was made by you.

"Feel free to call it what you wish, but don't re-name it" If I were to take that literally....Well, I think I know what you mean. In which case, I doubt the universe cares for the semantics, especially of a technique which is dubious at best and named after a move in an animie.

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Kaio Ken

First off, you'll have to know what an average pyramid looks like with four sides.  Visualize it, and now imagine another one, upside down, so they're connected at the base.  Do you know what I'm talking about?  It looks something like this:
/|\
\|/
Now, make one of those around your tan tien.  not a filled in one with ki, just the walls made out of ki, all connected to be a perfect crystal like that.
If you wish to double the output, make another one, somewhat bigger, over the one you just made.
Tripling the output of ki that's being magnified by these basic lenses would be to make yet another one around the first two.
And So on, and Ect.
I have tested this technique, and gotten immediate results every time, as well as the creator, who's lost to the internet, by now.

However, this does not work without a secondary technique, to help focus it.  You have to focus your aura, imagining it, and willing it to shift so it will hold the ki in, and let it shift your body, instead of dissipating rapidly like normal ki techniques do.

Go ahead and try it.  I've felt ki leaving my body doubled, tripled, or even more for the rate of how much ki is going out of my body.

Do you understand now?  This is only one of many techniques that was lost because people decided, immediately, that Traditional Ki was right, and anyone studying Radical Ki, or anything automatically associated with it, was wrong.

Im fighting the urge to laugh...out loud...LOL...sorry....LOL :x So now you are talking about lenses...and again qi shields...And worst of all you talk about qi leaving your body, which is the last thing you want, qi according to my understanding of qigong, is supposed to 'sit in the body'. What you are proposing is to make it leave your body, cultivating qi and throwing it away seems like a great waste of time, effort and energy (no pun intended).

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In reference to your post, Dark_Wanderer, on the idea of the Shinkuu Hadouken, have you ever tried making a ki ball inside a ki ball?  That's pretty much what I figured he was doing, and that seems to work effectively for an attack, because his attack hit multiple times.  The only way that would work would be for someone to make a ki ball inside another ki ball.

Self explanitory, but, I'll comment anyway. My understanding of the ole 'ki-ball' technique was that it was in fact...rubbish! haha! Why? Because actual masters of esoteric energies, like Chris Crudelli off "Mind, body and Kick ass moves" for one showed that it was a flow of qi between the hands, NOT a ball. I have many other practitioners online say it is messing around with ones aura and not your qi. So two different interpretations there, neither of which involve a ball.

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And As for the Moderator that will review this post, please make sure this doesn't get deleted.  I've been trying to help people that will listen realize things like this, but nearly noone ever does anymore.  They always think that Radical Ki will give them instant power, or Traditional Ki is absolutely right, and never go and look at the middle ground, or the fact that there IS a middle ground, and for true understanding of how ki works, you have to follow the middle ground, and not go on one path, or the other.
Ranma Bushiko
RanmaB@yahoo.com

We'll you're lucky, my original reply got deleted! *winks at Remakai* The Bottom line is, although you are probably quite correct that traditional qi isn't totally correct, it is far closer than radical Ki will ever be, since radical Ki is based on 'qi' only in name and nothing else. In reality 'Trad qi' and 'radki' are concepts, the truth path is not in the middle, since in reality there is not middle ground between them. You are also quite right in asking us all to keep an open mind, but you should also do the same. And hell, maybe I have stated a misconcenception or two in the above passage, the difference is that if someone points it out, I will take that as an oppourtunity for self reflection and fix any misconception that I have, and any fallacies that I have made/said.

ps. Someone reminded me. there is always the 'radki challange', currently real energy cultivation/manipulation systems are 1 - 0 up, you could attemp to balance the score! Or perhaps enter the 'middle of the road' team, which Im sure donjitsu2 would appreciate filming aswell.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on September 07, 2005, 10:49:49 AM
I will probably only post once here.  I'm a 6 and a half year ki user, and as such, I've been around long enough that I decided, upon finding this board, that I'd interject on the stuff for Radical Ki.  Please read this post with an open mind, not a closed one like I've found so many Traditional Ki users to have.

You're 6 and a half years old? Or do you have been using Rad ki Techniques for 6 and a half years? I'll assume you meant the latter, in which case I will state that I'm pretty sure 'radki' as a concept has existed only 4 and a half years. Im sure Kendamu could clear that one up properly for us, however. Kendamu helped create radki mixing the concepts of psionics and qi. I assume they did this because the mere Idea of psionics mixed with chi is probably the closest thing one could get to copying anime techniques with a tiny (and I mean tiny) shred of credibility.   Adressing your second sentence, concerning 'open-mindedness', I would like to ask you a question; Have you ever considered that YOU are totally and uterrly NOT open minded? You make a small attempt to validate your style of energy work with us by saying some cryptic prattle about 'I walk the path in the middle', when in actual fact what you have suggested in your post is plain, straight and simple new age radki rubbish. You say you agree with Kouji's post and yet you take none of the important factors of real energy work into account other than breathing (ie: posture, body mechanics ect.) So stop trying to say you adhere to traditional qigong principles when you still quite clearly live in a fantasy world. At best you are just practicing some inefficient variant of psionics, of which I am now sure is a suggestion that all the psions will be highly offended at.

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I was trained before the split between Radical Ki and Traditional Ki happened.  I follow the middle path, using both when necessary, and I always have, and always will.

There was NEVER a split. Radki was never part of actual qigong, or any other eastern or western energetic practice.

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Radical Ki was originally not a method of duplicating Dragonball Z techniques so much as it was duplicating techniques in general, however, DBZers and Roleplayers came along, and started acting like idiots...(God, I STILL Can remember morons going and saying "I can do a Kamehameha!"), and then the split happened as a problem because of that.  I also remember how everyone that went to the Traditional Ki side said that everyone in Radical Ki's techniques were flawed because "The techniques you're using are messing with your mind."  Anything said against this that had any proof was also sent straight into that, or chalked up as BS right then and there, no listening to the person even if they had an actual event happen in front of them that had no way of being explained unless they were into radical ki in the first place.
However, this doesn't mean that Radical Ki people may not have stumbled upon SOMETHING.  I once was in the middle of a pool with some kid I knew that I was training, and joking around with him, about ki techniques and the like, and he tried something, and part of his hair went from straight black to blond in several parts for the middle...possibly due to his aura, or possibly due to something else.  This could be that "Super Saiyan" thing everyone's looking for, or some weird aura transformation, or something totally different.  I don't know.  But once I saw that, along with his little brother seeing it as well, I realized that argueing with normal people was futile, gave the normal ki boards the finger, and went on my own path.

You have students? Someone who states that uncertainty of what radical ki actually is, whether its of any REAL benefit, (and so on)  is teaching people about it?

Evidence: "this doesn't mean Radical Ki people may not have stumbled upon SOMETHING" (To clarify: You teach 'something' meaning, you don't actually know what you are teaching. It would help if you really told us what the benifit was, as most people wont see the benefit of your hair changing to a bright un-natural colour.  Don't know about you, but I can only see the people who make hair dye products getting excited about the above passage.)

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I agree with Koujiryuu on the problems with the ki techniques.  Visualization is a problem for manipulating ki.  However, back when I started, there was only breathing techniques, and MysteryShadow didn't have those explained fully on his webpage.


So, essentially you are saying what was available was only an aspect of energy work, and that aspect in itself was only partially complete. Scant at best then?

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HOWEVER, manipulating Ki outside your body IS possible, since your mind makes a temporary aura around it, keeping it stable to a certain point.  The further it goes away from your body, the less stable it gets...so stuff like the Kamehameha isn't possible.  Manipulating ki over your body in your aura is all good and all, but it doesn't work against some stuff.  For example, one of my students figured out how to make a Ki Knife, and it went through that natural body shield like a hot knife through butter.  It took me about 5 attempts to grab it with my ki to yank that stupid thing out, too.  It hurt badly, and gave me a headache.  However, a short range ki shield worked wonders against it going into my body.


Again, this all sounds like a terribly infantile version of psionics. Once again I am shocked that you have students, especially since you have trouble dealing with their 'ki-knife' attack!


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Ki blasts, as MysteryShadow taught, also worked well at first, but people quickly made stupid versions of those.  I remember teaching a student some of the techniques for Ki blasts that were on his site, and me and him feeling the pressure from the two ki blasts colliding, about 5 and a half years ago.

So, assuming radki existed before it actually did, you, after training in the discipline for only a year were able to not only learn the ki blast technique, but to teach it to another to the degree that both you and him were able to 'feel the pressure'? This is a remarkable feat! Especially since many people who train for such simmilair feats, such as Lin Kong Jing/empty force and
Kiaijutsu, require the time of their whole life to master such powers. ***NOTE***If you do care to rebuttle to this post, I would like to ask how long the pressure was felt for? Perhaps it is better to ask how long the duration of both of your 'blasts' lasted for instead...

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However, as I've come to go through ki, and worked out how it worked with the body, I realized that though the breathing techniques do work...there's some problems with them as well.  Energy from your surroundings isn't meant to be taken in like the techniques have you take it in.  It's supposed to be used, but it isn't supposed to be ingested into your aura so easily.  Using your own power, though weaker in the short run, keeps blockages from happening, and helps you get in touch with it easier.  Your ki is hooked up to your nervous system, so it's possible to connect with it, and "Talk" with it...asking it questions mentally, and eventually hearing it's replies.

Do you care to list the problems breathing creates? I for one know that when I breathe I stay alive :) I don't have many problems with breathing... If your second and third sentences are an attempt to adress some of the problems, they don't make a lot of sense and don't have much to do with breathing.

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For Powerups, breathing exercises works well, if you wish to risk chakra damage in the long run, like I felt when I touched it.  It could just be that it'll damage me alone, but I'd rather not risk it myself, and so I chose to keep from having to use it as much as possible.
Ki users back when I started out documented working Ki shields, however, when the split between Radical Ki and Traditional Ki happened, most of that information was lost, due to forum moderators, or web people that weren't bright enough to realize that the technique worked.
For example.
One of my first trainers in Ki, was a man that went by the name of Aaron.  He was asked by a friend to test a Kaio Ken powerup technique that they had developed.  He was somewhat injured at the time.  Aaron tried the technique, and his injury started spraying blood out like a small, tiny geyser.  So please, don't claim that most of this stuff doesn't work, or that the stuff possibly can't work.  Radical Ki was originally just people trying to see if techniques could be duplicated from anime.  Not a whole split path, not this, or that, just if it worked.

See you lost me right when you said 'power ups', I know its only semantics, but its not a good idea to say in one instance "These morons who said they could do Kamaehama!!" and then to say/use terminology like, "For powerups" or "Kaio ken", it doesn't help you in the slightest. Also I would like to add that most traditional qi practicies would laugh at the idea of a 'ki shield'. You are arguing against 5000+ years of tried, tested and established energy manipulation/cultivation systems. See Darduck's articles on qi gong and the other 'body energy' articles here for further details: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php?board=71.0.

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For those that wish to have a "Powerup" that works well under any situation, and doesn't have these problems, I'll put a working Kaio Ken technique that I got my hands on before it was lost.  Feel free to call it what you wish, but don't re-name it, since the technique isn't yours, nor was made by you.

"Feel free to call it what you wish, but don't re-name it" If I were to take that literally....Well, I think I know what you mean. In which case, I doubt the universe cares for the semantics, especially of a technique which is dubious at best and named after a move in an animie.

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Kaio Ken

First off, you'll have to know what an average pyramid looks like with four sides.  Visualize it, and now imagine another one, upside down, so they're connected at the base.  Do you know what I'm talking about?  It looks something like this:
/|\
\|/
Now, make one of those around your tan tien.  not a filled in one with ki, just the walls made out of ki, all connected to be a perfect crystal like that.
If you wish to double the output, make another one, somewhat bigger, over the one you just made.
Tripling the output of ki that's being magnified by these basic lenses would be to make yet another one around the first two.
And So on, and Ect.
I have tested this technique, and gotten immediate results every time, as well as the creator, who's lost to the internet, by now.

However, this does not work without a secondary technique, to help focus it.  You have to focus your aura, imagining it, and willing it to shift so it will hold the ki in, and let it shift your body, instead of dissipating rapidly like normal ki techniques do.

Go ahead and try it.  I've felt ki leaving my body doubled, tripled, or even more for the rate of how much ki is going out of my body.

Do you understand now?  This is only one of many techniques that was lost because people decided, immediately, that Traditional Ki was right, and anyone studying Radical Ki, or anything automatically associated with it, was wrong.

Im fighting the urge to laugh...out loud...LOL...sorry....LOL :x So now you are talking about lenses...and again qi shields...And worst of all you talk about qi leaving your body, which is the last thing you want, qi according to my understanding of qigong, is supposed to 'sit in the body'. What you are proposing is to make it leave your body, cultivating qi and throwing it away seems like a great waste of time, effort and energy (no pun intended).

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In reference to your post, Dark_Wanderer, on the idea of the Shinkuu Hadouken, have you ever tried making a ki ball inside a ki ball?  That's pretty much what I figured he was doing, and that seems to work effectively for an attack, because his attack hit multiple times.  The only way that would work would be for someone to make a ki ball inside another ki ball.

Self explanitory, but, I'll comment anyway. My understanding of the ole 'ki-ball' technique was that it was in fact...rubbish! haha! Why? Because actual masters of esoteric energies, like Chris Crudelli off "Mind, body and Kick ass moves" for one showed that it was a flow of qi between the hands, NOT a ball. I have many other practitioners online say it is messing around with ones aura and not your qi. So two different interpretations there, neither of which involve a ball.

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And As for the Moderator that will review this post, please make sure this doesn't get deleted.  I've been trying to help people that will listen realize things like this, but nearly noone ever does anymore.  They always think that Radical Ki will give them instant power, or Traditional Ki is absolutely right, and never go and look at the middle ground, or the fact that there IS a middle ground, and for true understanding of how ki works, you have to follow the middle ground, and not go on one path, or the other.
Ranma Bushiko
RanmaB@yahoo.com

We'll you're lucky, my original reply got deleted! *winks at Remakai* The Bottom line is, although you are probably quite correct that traditional qi isn't totally correct, it is far closer than radical Ki will ever be, since radical Ki is based on 'qi' only in name and nothing else. In reality 'Trad qi' and 'radki' are concepts, the truth path is not in the middle, since in reality there is not middle ground between them. You are also quite right in asking us all to keep an open mind, but you should also do the same. And hell, maybe I have stated a misconcenception or two in the above passage, the difference is that if someone points it out, I will take that as an oppourtunity for self reflection and fix any misconception that I have, and any fallacies that I have made/said.

ps. Someone reminded me. there is always the 'radki challange', currently real energy cultivation/manipulation systems are 1 - 0 up, you could attemp to balance the score! Or perhaps enter the 'middle of the road' team, which Im sure donjitsu2 would appreciate filming aswell.

You were right in the assumption that I've been using ki for 6 and a half years.  I'm 22 years old, and I've been working with Ki for a good chunk of my life.
I was saying I agreed with what Koujiryuu's post was for the gist of it.  Most techniques aren't well written, or said well, anymore, and people seem to think that visualization is everything.  However, the "Variant of Psionics part" is a bit insulting.  I was writing the post when I was partially asleep, trying to get my gist across without being called an idiot, or something like that.
I'm not actually sure what that weird yellow hair thing was about either, but it does give you fair pause that maybe those DBZers DID find something out, then called it SSJ, Super Saiya-jin, or Super Saiyan, for lack of a better name.  It definitely would explain a lot of things, like how come they're so obsessed with them being right.  However, Traditional Ki users have gone and rebuttled
The references for the Breathing exercize, I just gave a sentence on, and explained more.  For lack of a thing there, I will here now.
When I started the breathing exercises, the ki that entered my body didn't feel right, and didn't mix right with my own.  It may just be that my area's wrong, but it never felt right or went right well enough with my own power that I could work with it well.
For the Ki blast, the pressure was approximately what you'd feel for a hand pushing against another person's hand, about 3 feet away from each other.  The blasts lasted about ten seconds a test, and started going out over a wide area after about 5-10 feet away.
Powerups were the original name put on MysteryShadow's site, and the New Mystics Site, for the original one, which probably isn't still up.
I've managed to pull off a visible ki ball a while back, while focusing it into a weird shape, that looked like a peace sign without the big dividing line.  It was blue.  The way that Ki balls work, is that when you WILL something to happen, your Yi, or will, wraps around the energy, and holds it in the pattern.
And you haven't tried that technique for that Kaio Ken, have you?  I put in there, a way to keep the energy from going outside your body's natural aura, though you might find a different way, it shows that what's known now as Radical Ki did have good teachings back then, but most of it was lost after a while, as I said earlier
MysteryShadow's site, if you'll ask around, was up starting 8 years ago, around 1997-1998, however, went down a couple times.  I don't actually know what happened to it, but it was the first major Ki page online.  They had a mixture of Radical and Traditional Ki teachings, as it's known now, and the boards had some arguments for whether a technique was Traditional or not. 
This probably isn't the best of all explinations for a rebuttal, but I just woke up.  Feel free to bug me on aim for RanmaBushiko, or on msn using RanmaB@yahoo.com (not hotmail, yahoo.  You can use yahoo e-mails on it.).
Hope this helps,
Ranma Bushiko
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Silver_Archer on September 07, 2005, 11:53:16 PM
'Find truth in fact' is beginning to turn into one of my most liked phrases. The fact of the matter is that no one has really demonstrated Radical Ki to an extent that it can actually have a mass public presence. A handful of people on this planet even know of it, and that popularity is diminishing, not rising. The fact of the matter is that traditional qigong is practiced by millions and the popularity is growing, it has had many demonstrations world over, it has multiple television documentaries em compassing it and even some regular television shows dealing with it on a regular basis, it also has undergone more scrutiny for effectiveness. Unless you really have any more facts to add into this whole mix which will help flip things in your favour, the truth derivable from the facts available is that Radki is a dying trend and the so called traditional ideas are much more widespread and have given more demonstrations than the other. If I were to make a calculated guess from this, I'd simply assume RadKi to be largely ineffective. Proving me wrong is easy. Being the experienced middle path walker that you are,and if your methods truly work as you say they do, and if you are so concerned with trying to set things right,  I am sure that you can easily train a lot of students to easily demonstrate Radki techniques with little sign of visible doubt within and within a decade or so actually begin to make people take notice of you. When you do that, we might begin to consider the facts once again. Until then, there really isn't anything to discuss. Good day to you.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on September 09, 2005, 01:19:20 AM
'Find truth in fact' is beginning to turn into one of my most liked phrases. The fact of the matter is that no one has really demonstrated Radical Ki to an extent that it can actually have a mass public presence. A handful of people on this planet even know of it, and that popularity is diminishing, not rising. The fact of the matter is that traditional qigong is practiced by millions and the popularity is growing, it has had many demonstrations world over, it has multiple television documentaries em compassing it and even some regular television shows dealing with it on a regular basis, it also has undergone more scrutiny for effectiveness. Unless you really have any more facts to add into this whole mix which will help flip things in your favour, the truth derivable from the facts available is that Radki is a dying trend and the so called traditional ideas are much more widespread and have given more demonstrations than the other. If I were to make a calculated guess from this, I'd simply assume RadKi to be largely ineffective. Proving me wrong is easy. Being the experienced middle path walker that you are,and if your methods truly work as you say they do, and if you are so concerned with trying to set things right,  I am sure that you can easily train a lot of students to easily demonstrate Radki techniques with little sign of visible doubt within and within a decade or so actually begin to make people take notice of you. When you do that, we might begin to consider the facts once again. Until then, there really isn't anything to discuss. Good day to you.
I'll agree that the Traditional methods are more widespread, but the Radical methods originally were just tests for new ideas using Traditional methods.  I've never said that Traditional Ki was wrong, or ineffective.  I've just said that the breathing exercises made me feel weird in a very wrong way, compared to using my own Ki.  Radical Ki may or not be a dying art, it probably has just gone underground, or people have stopped admitting they use it because of the Traditional Ki users insulting anyone that uses it, as if it suddenly makes your thinking go wrong, due to Ki blockages.  I've had blockages, but I cleared them off some time back in a Yoga place, and I still think the same way I did then.
However, most Traditional Ki users seem to automatically write off any techniques that aren't Traditional.  Take a look at what you're doing right now, for example.  Have you ever tried that technique that I mentioned, which managed to hurt me, for that ki Knife technique, or try to develop it?  Everyone else hasn't even touched that fact, yet it happened to hurt and, if it hit my head, gave me a rather nasty headache.  No offense, but has any of your techniques managed to do this?  Have your techniques, coming from a relative new user, managed to hurt you?  The path of Radical ki was to figure out new methods of using Traditional techniques TO make a new method of doing things.  That was all the Blasts, and Everything were.  Nothing More, Nothing Less.  And to say that Radical Ki is a dying trend is to say that inspiration also happens to be a dying trend as well.  Two of the people I knew that worked on The New Mystics site, figured out a technique which allowed them to draw from the Tao.  That would fall under the category of Radical Ki now, as well, since it isn't Traditional, or has things in it that aren't Traditional.
Think this over, then reply.  A lot of the things that they managed to come up with back then worked well, and, sometimes, even helped increase Traditional Ki training even more.
Ranma Bushiko
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Jamin_Donut on February 05, 2006, 07:10:33 PM
Good and interesting website and forum you guys have here.  I notice it's been a while since this thread has been responded too but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

From my experience the reason why "intention" or using the mind to create "no touch" martial effects generally is unnoticed or doesn't work is because there are very few practitioners who can focus energy at a deep enough level.  Most people mucking about with this stuff are using only a surface level of the mind.  The rest of the mind and "body" doesn't really believe that this is possible so it's calling bullshit.  One of my Aikido mentors has 47 years in the art and as far as he's concerned Aikido is all mind - it's a unity of mind where the body has finally learned what the conscious mind is trying to get it to learn.  This goes beyond just gross body positioning - although in the first 10 years or so this is pretty important.  When the deeper levels of the body such as the cells of the muscles, bones and ligaments learn the frequency that the mind is sending them gross body positioning becomes far less important.  At this stage it seems as if as practioner can break the rules, but from my experience it is not that body positioning does not occur, it is just that the body positioning is smaller - sometimes too small for the inexperienced to notice.

There has been a lot of misunderstanding of the concept when the founder of Aikido says that "Aikido is love".  At least from one perspective this means that a practitioner's body does not respond to an attack with confrontation.  Again at a beginning level this generally is shown as moving the body externally to blend with an attack.  At higher levels the body learns to "do nothing".  There is no reaction to the strike and so the strike is rendered impotent by it's own existence.  This is not an airy-fairy concept but a very high level of Aikido that is only achieved by consistent training of the mind and body. 

 
 
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RLSPhoenix on April 13, 2006, 07:02:40 AM
I think some of radki is true. After all, when I studied it, I did have varying success. I did not 'go super-sayain' but I did gain a certain degree of power over ki. It's all about willpower. I haven't blown a hole in anybody, but I can certainly manipulate ki into a spherical shape. Visible to the human eye? Not sure on that, I don't need it to be. Ever since my training I have been able to see/sense ki with my waking eyes.

Now, before you doubt me, let me point out that I was a member here (Darth Nemesis may have ben my name, or just Nemesis, can't remember) and I was a reffere for the psi tourny Theif Death was planning, and my tester was absoulutely amazed by my ability to read his ki movements. I also was respected for my control of ki on the ki-teachings board.

Now most of radki is BS. But some of it is just another step for humans discovering what exactly we are capable of.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SethLaRoth DeShawl on April 30, 2006, 02:13:18 PM
What is the B/S portion you ask? anything that remotely represents apparently DBZish phenomena and such a described increase in power as is remotely beyond human logic and reasoning by the human mind.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Sai Shin on May 30, 2006, 11:01:33 AM
You know, at first, when I started practicing all this, I didn't know what the big deal was about this whole pointless Radki/Tradki thing....

First off, I want to just say that I for one, don't consider Radki to be fake, just some of the ones who practice it our kids who want to prove that they are bigger and badder than the ones that practice "traditional" ki. Most of you are right, its just a bunch of kids over-exaggerating. I can clearly see that now. As for most Radki techs no working, well, MY PERSONAL OPINION on that is, most "Radki-ers" (I don't like that term) try to perform pretty advanced techniques without doing the steps neccessary to develop them.

For instance, moving energy out of your dantien to your arms or legs, hardening them to increase power is actually an age old practice that takes a bit of work to develop properly before you get any good results. How much time it takes to develop, depends on you, just so long as you give it time to develop. The same goes for making a chi ball, which, I don't see the harm in, it may can't do all the things some people say it can like blast through walls and stuff like that, but it does have many applications many of you would consider "practical".

The sad thing is, is that the ones who are pratical and try to develop Radki for such purposes, usually get discouraged because of all of the hype from everyone about it being ALL bullshit. Which is just not true. It's the fault of the ones who practice it, most of who are too impatient to train and brag about getting major results from it, and try to start a cult or something.

Even I , who actually still believes in it, has grown up some and has the common sense to know what you can and cannot do with it. And maybe these are just the words of a hopeless dreamer, but I think anything can be done with hard work, even most of the techniques that many consider to be "fake". Sure, I know most of you are going "yeah right..." but I still feel that way.

Another thing is that even though the majority of people are against one thing, doesn't make it not true. Besides, the best thing people can come up with today is "theories and opinions". Their words are not fact, this goes for RADKIERS and TRADKIERS...You're only hope is to discover the real truth for you self, and whether or not people believe you or think your crazy, doesn't really matter and shouldn't even be an issue.

Thats...ALL I have to say...I'm not here to take sides or join in on this debate(so please don't drage me in), just wanting to get something off my chest thats been there for ages.

Thank you, you may continue.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Vox Nocti on June 19, 2006, 12:32:51 PM
2 words: CHI. BLAST.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Rafnul! on June 20, 2006, 02:28:17 PM
I don't think chi blasts are impossible.  I also don't think chi blasts are representative of the nature of radki.  That's why I always support radki.  I shouldn't have to really, but for some reason, you people can't hate radki and have chi blasts at the same time.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Vox Nocti on June 20, 2006, 02:46:44 PM
Chi blasts aren't impossible, I agree, it's just that they loose their strength and completely dissolve at less than approx. 3 feet. For a chi blast to be fully functional (i.e., to strike a target at, say, 60 feet away), one would have to be able to generate a LOT of power, and quite frankly, I can't really see anyone except for maybe Buddha (or whatever) doing that (risk of dying, meridian rupturing, etc etc).

And I do think Chi blast are an integral part of rad-ki, since the technique appears at almost every rad-ki site.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on July 19, 2006, 01:57:45 AM
Quote
Two of the people I knew that worked on The New Mystics site, figured out a technique which allowed them to draw from the Tao.  That would fall under the category of Radical Ki now, as well, since it isn't Traditional, or has things in it that aren't Traditional.
Think this over, then reply.  A lot of the things that they managed to come up with back then worked well, and, sometimes, even helped increase Traditional Ki training even more.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

It says quite clearly in the Dao De Jing and other Chinese scriptures that the Great Mother cannot be approached. If you try and seek it, it will elude you. How then could I or any of my former associates just make up something that's millenia old and rooted in egyptian hermeticism?

There is qigong. There is taiji, bagua, xing yi, chuka shaolin, tsoi tai mantis, wing chun, jeet kune do, aikido, hapkido. All those styles involve energywork to a great degree. I challenge you to approach any serious practicioner of the martial arts to a fight and try to "power up" or "throw a ki blast", and I apologize for any exploded eyeballs, punctured kidneys, lungs or broken limbs you recieve in the process. There are martial arts involving qi and there is bullshit- if you want to emulate DBZ I'd suggest you look into psionics and astral space/lucid dreaming.

Come now, there's people still debating if that stuff has merit outside a cartoon?  :bunny: :bunny: :bunny:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Athiril on July 30, 2006, 12:48:39 PM
http://www.drakkan.net/ki.html
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Mahotsukai on August 01, 2006, 10:44:43 PM
http://www.drakkan.net/ki.html

Dude, cool animation. lol  :HA!:  :biggrin:

Did you make that, I've always wondered how that type of animation could be done? Did you use a movie media program or abode photoshop?

You could make your own Star Wars/ DBZ crank movie with that. lol  :P


Sincerely,

Mahotsukai
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 11, 2006, 03:02:47 PM
Hello, everyone.  I'd like you all to check out http://kihandbook.proboards54.com (http://kihandbook.proboards54.com).  Apparent;y they're under the impression that since I'm the only non-Radki there that I'm obviously wrong about how Qi works.  If anyone feels like doing some educating anytime soon please head there.

So go there now!
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Ninja Kl0wn on October 11, 2006, 03:10:57 PM
Well Gokuu ole' boy, it is time for one last rodeo. *Cue "The Boys Are Back in Town" as the theme song*
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 11, 2006, 03:20:44 PM
'Bout time.  I was getting bored!
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 11, 2006, 04:04:17 PM
Whatever you do, don't go in there and start flaming and arguing - that will disturb their egos and lock them in a permament state of radki.  Stick with passive ideas, links, and sneaky manipulation tactics.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 11, 2006, 04:07:03 PM
Tried it and Bane caught on and turned them all against me.  I've been at this stage in an argument with guys like them before.  Just stay strong and eventually their laziness will kick in....  that or their bedtimes.

Besides, if we can't do it, I have some secret weapons.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 11, 2006, 09:56:23 PM
I skimmed through it and don't really see where people 'turned against' you.  I just see you presenting civilzed logic everywhere which nobody wants to hear and ninja_klown being an idiot.  If anything killed you, it was probably ninja_klown.  As for me, I'm not going to waste my time arguing this time.  I'm going for the one-hit kill.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 11, 2006, 10:21:37 PM
You probably need to pay close attention to "ATTENTION ALL FORUM USERS" in the General section, then.  That's where all the problems started.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 12, 2006, 04:38:42 PM
I was starting to get a little support in one of my threads but it looks like you pulled the admin card anyway.  Oh well.   :P

I guess that's the most efficient way.  That's what I did in Halo's Hideout.  I went straight for the admin over AIM.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Philosopher on October 12, 2006, 04:51:39 PM
How do you do that? What do you say to someone to convince them there whole perspective is wrong?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Razeroth on October 12, 2006, 05:30:21 PM
You don't.  There is no way to convince anyone else they're wrong unless they can truly see that they are wrong.  Otherwise, they never learn how they are wrong.

-Razeroth
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 12, 2006, 06:03:35 PM
It's usually much easier to talk to an admin than it is a bunch of forum goons who will probably flame you to death.  For radki all I have to do is present all the facts and logic and usually if the admin is intelligent he will end up agreeing.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 12, 2006, 07:25:48 PM
That's how it happened at Ki Handbook.  I presented my points logically and calmly.  I got legitimate questions, counterpoints, and a "thanks but no thanks" and I respectfully replied to those.  Even in the midst of flaming I kept my cool about 95% of the time when when I didn't I saw my mistake and fixed it.  Because of that, the admin there (who was planning on taking a more realistic perspective, anyway) saw my points and agreed with me.  Some of the forum users agreed with me, too.

What I've learned over the years is that you can't be too forceful.  If you stay calm then usually it'll turn out well.  That's how it happened at Ki Teachings and that's how it's happening at Ki Handbook.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Razeroth on October 13, 2006, 12:10:08 AM
And what a great transformation it is...

-Razeroth
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Philosopher on October 13, 2006, 03:16:55 PM
Has anyone ever noticed that On radki sites they always use the term ki, but on traditional ki site (e.g. here) it almost always chi, and sometimes qi? barley ever is the team ki used.

obviously they draw there inspiration from DBZ and others so they'll use the word used there, but why do we prefer the Chinese versions?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 13, 2006, 03:22:09 PM
The Japanese term Ki is a reference to any type of energy, including heat and motion, not just metaphysical energy.  The chinese term Chi, on the other hand, refers solely to metaphysical energy.  Also, I gather, the Chinese have much more research on the subject.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Philosopher on October 13, 2006, 03:26:55 PM
So you don't recon it's some sort of subconscious method of distancing ourselves from them?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: kakkarot on October 13, 2006, 07:37:17 PM
actually the japanese term ki is used in a very broad sense, which does include heat and motion but also much much more. chi can be used in the same generic, broad manner but is most often used within one of a few established paradigms, such as TCM, "martial arts chi", feng shui, etc.

i'd say most people use chi rather than ki because they shy away from the dbz image "ki" produces, and not for any true intellectualism or precision.

~kakkarot
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 14, 2006, 12:35:54 PM
I study Japanese martial arts.  I prefer the term Ki though you guys have seen me use Qi/Chi and it's definitions a lot in the past.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 14, 2006, 04:29:24 PM
I study Japanese martial arts.  I prefer the term Ki though you guys have seen me use Qi/Chi and it's definitions a lot in the past.
Well then if you study Japanese martial arts yet you have used the terms Qi and Chi, then I guess you would be the best person here to ask for insight on WHY you chose to use the terms Qi and Chi.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 15, 2006, 10:31:14 AM
Because I studied something else at the time.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Philosopher on October 15, 2006, 04:27:47 PM
Hears a question for you, your trying to convert  Radki community and one of them is claiming his friend can fly, what can I do other than demand proof and shout bull shit as loud as possible?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Razeroth on October 15, 2006, 05:45:21 PM
See, here is the issue.  DO NOT yell, or curse at all for that matter.  In fact, do NOT let your anger manipulate what you say or do.

Every community is like the one you just described above, Philosopher.  If you go into one of these communities then you have to be prepared to not convert the entire population.  And that probably wo't happen anyway, unless you do something extraordinary.  First off, you have to realize that while some people will side with the person who makes the outrageous claim, there will be others who will move to your side if they see your logic as opposed to their own, which is lacking.

Plus, making an outrageous claim like, "My friend can fly, can you?" will make some people switch sides because they can see how idiotic their side is in an argument.

There is actually a procedure to go about before you just try to convert people. 

Step 1.  Go to the admin.  Why?  Because, all of the members will trust the admin.  They will not trust you because 1.  they don't know you and 2. in all liklihood you have a title that says "New Member" with one star while a mod arguing you will have at least 5, more depending on the type of forums.  The grand scheme to getting the admin on your side is that you have automatically won if you do.  The admin, like in the last site that Kendamu was working on, will make an announcement to all of his members explaining how he/she was misguided, not completely wrong, and how all of the members should listen to what <insertnamehere> has to say.  At this point, the members, who were originally enticed by the admin's site, will listen to a public statement of what is really true about metaphysics, or in the case of RadKi, simply ki.

Step 2.  Once the admin believes what you say to a degree and trusts you, then you can make a public statement and he/she will back you up.  If; however, you are not backed up by the admin, then you must still act accordingly and make as convincing and logical an argument as possible.  You must also do this in a way that shows that without you saying directly 1. that you are experienced 2. that you are only offering your perspective, not forcing it, and 3. that you have no ulterior motive to being at the site and that you are not a disbeliever to metaphysics

Step 3.  Once you have at least some followers, give some sites where a person could learn (this is important) A BETTER, not the TRUE, but A BETTER way of learning <insertmetaphysicalarthere>.  If you say the true, then that makes the people feel inferior, so it is too be avoided.

Those are the general steps for a conversion of a RadKi site.  It really isn't too hard, you must be able to debate other people well and without losing your cool.

-Razeroth

EDIT:  Philosopher, have you seen the RadKi challenge video?  It's freakin hilarious, and it can also be used as a secret weapon to convince people that RadKi doesn't exist.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 15, 2006, 06:56:55 PM
Losing Limits just claimed he has a friend who he's seen fly around in the air and who has fired ki blasts at him.  I started a thread to demand proof of all his qualifications because he wont shut up about how elite he is.  The admin is already on our side and most of the population there is seeing the light so I'm not really trying to be sneaky anymore.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Silver_Archer on October 15, 2006, 09:46:02 PM
About time you did that. That losing limits fellow was beginning to piss me off.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 16, 2006, 10:16:48 AM
Step 1.  Go to the admin.  Why?  Because, all of the members will trust the admin.  They will not trust you because 1.  they don't know you and 2. in all liklihood you have a title that says "New Member" with one star while a mod arguing you will have at least 5, more depending on the type of forums.  The grand scheme to getting the admin on your side is that you have automatically won if you do.  The admin, like in the last site that Kendamu was working on, will make an announcement to all of his members explaining how he/she was misguided, not completely wrong, and how all of the members should listen to what <insertnamehere> has to say.  At this point, the members, who were originally enticed by the admin's site, will listen to a public statement of what is really true about metaphysics, or in the case of RadKi, simply ki.

Done.

Quote
Step 2.  Once the admin believes what you say to a degree and trusts you, then you can make a public statement and he/she will back you up.  If; however, you are not backed up by the admin, then you must still act accordingly and make as convincing and logical an argument as possible.  You must also do this in a way that shows that without you saying directly 1. that you are experienced 2. that you are only offering your perspective, not forcing it, and 3. that you have no ulterior motive to being at the site and that you are not a disbeliever to metaphysics

Done that and Losing Limits is the only one who doesn't side with the admin.

Quote
Step 3.  Once you have at least some followers, give some sites where a person could learn (this is important) A BETTER, not the TRUE, but A BETTER way of learning <insertmetaphysicalarthere>.  If you say the true, then that makes the people feel inferior, so it is too be avoided.

Done.

Quote
EDIT:  Philosopher, have you seen the RadKi challenge video?  It's freakin hilarious, and it can also be used as a secret weapon to convince people that RadKi doesn't exist.

Done but it didn't really work.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: losinglimits on October 23, 2006, 07:26:50 PM
Man you guys think your so smart. Well you can just consider this site the one that got away.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: losinglimits on October 23, 2006, 07:30:45 PM
You see were not all just dumb teenagers who are easily manipulated. Some of us can look past our faith in the admin and see whats really happening.

I am going to prewarn every ki forum I know about of you guys so that you will not be able to do this again. I currently know of 13. This information will spread to the other forums and then everyone will know that your just a bunch of conmen trying to convert the forums to your own beliefs.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Big Boss on October 24, 2006, 12:15:22 AM
you see, the great thing about conmen is that they convince people to believe in something in order to take advantage of them. You will not see any of that at veritas. We only try to spread truth (the meaning of the word veritas) in an altruistic fashion, so that it may benefit all.

working at convincing others to believe what you believe is natural, whether or not you are correct in your beliefs. I don't hold anything against those that come here to debate, nor would I mind if you wanted to have a mature debate here. but on the subject of maturity, I don't find it very mature of you to want to "spread" what I think could become some rather disgustingly fabricated lies to the other "ki forums"

however, we are all entitled to do as we see fit.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: DownRodeo on October 24, 2006, 09:14:35 AM
you see, the great thing about conmen is that they convince people to believe in something in order to take advantage of them. You will not see any of that at veritas. We only try to spread truth (the meaning of the word veritas) in an altruistic fashion, so that it may benefit all.

working at convincing others to believe what you believe is natural, whether or not you are correct in your beliefs. I don't hold anything against those that come here to debate, nor would I mind if you wanted to have a mature debate here. but on the subject of maturity, I don't find it very mature of you to want to "spread" what I think could become some rather disgustingly fabricated lies to the other "ki forums"

however, we are all entitled to do as we see fit.

I love you martial thoughts.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: kakkarot on October 24, 2006, 12:32:18 PM
Warn them to do what, LosingLimits? Continue to believe their lies and delusions of power? If the members of ANY radki forum can actually do what they claim to do, why are they so quick to switch to traditional teachings of qi gong and forsake radki as though it were powerless? Obviously because radki is powerless.

People don't stop doing something that works when someone else tells them it doesn't work. People stop doing something that doesn't work when someone else tells them it doesn't work.

~kakkarot
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on October 24, 2006, 02:37:51 PM
Exactly kakkarot.  When people say "zomg you crushed my forum and everyone left how cruel of you" I just laugh.  I didn't really do anything; I just tell people the facts.  It's them that decide to stop doing radki.  And if they decided to stop doing radki, it obviously wasn't working for them in the first place.  So what am I crushing if there's nothing there of value to begin with, and how does people leaving of their own free will and decision constitute "crushing"?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on October 24, 2006, 05:43:06 PM
You see were not all just dumb teenagers who are easily manipulated. Some of us can look past our faith in the admin and see whats really happening.

I am going to prewarn every ki forum I know about of you guys so that you will not be able to do this again. I currently know of 13. This information will spread to the other forums and then everyone will know that your just a bunch of conmen trying to convert the forums to your own beliefs.

Hey.  You might want to spread the word to this one (http://kendamu.proboards49.com/index.cgi) as well because that's where about half the Radki kids went when Ki Handbook went down the crapper.  I hear they can post freely there without being flamed.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Athiril on October 24, 2006, 09:18:46 PM
you see, the great thing about conmen is that they convince people to believe in something in order to take advantage of them. You will not see any of that at veritas.

Ahahahahhahaha hahahahaha.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Murray on November 22, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
Does anyone have links to any extreme radki sites? I'm looking for "OMG I CAN TRAFNSOMR INTO A WOFL LOLOL!!!" type of shit... :)
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: SethLaRoth DeShawl on December 08, 2006, 08:27:31 AM
Why don't you just go to google and type Extreme Radki, I'm fairly certain some shit will come up.  Some pretty funny shit too.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Darkflame on December 08, 2006, 10:59:51 PM
Why don't you just go to google and type Extreme Radki, I'm fairly certain some shit will come up.  Some pretty funny shit too.

Like my blog >_<
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Milazzo on May 09, 2007, 06:15:06 PM
As far as what radki proposes(ki blasts,ki shields, enhancing, etc), all is possible. But doing so as they say wouldnt make any sense at all; especially under and qigong practiced. their visualization would make more sense for a 'pro' of the psionic arts, hence manipulating energy on a psion's terms, not a qigong practitioner. Anywho, I found this and thought it was funny. real-time dbz fight. makes me giggle like a lil girl.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=etmYJ__bAF0 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=etmYJ__bAF0)
These guys can do it :D
Teejee
-Milazzo
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Windsmover001 on May 09, 2007, 09:16:09 PM
Interesting day today, as usual, everything amazes me.
I just read the original posting today on this post...

I'm just curious... If someone, or a group of someones, were masters of all the arts, studied here, and combined with their own intelligences were "attacking" someone, what would be a good way to put a stop to it?
I ask this question, because I sense that it has been happening to a lot of people, including myself.  The only help I've received, is using my own energies to deflect what has been occuring.  I've also been using telepathy to let them know, I know, and I'm not going to tolerate it.  Call me crazy, but I've telepathically been communicating with one of them, but I get mixed energies.  Any suggestions???
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ThiefDeath on May 09, 2007, 09:28:04 PM
Make a new topic about this.  You're not going to find your desired audience in this one.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Windsmover001 on May 09, 2007, 09:35:28 PM
Thank you.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: ogrelee on June 10, 2007, 04:41:04 PM
While I do not believe that it is humanly possible to do these "dragonballz" type things with chi, I would like to offer a different scientific view of chi.
     Allow me to preface this post with mention of the fact that I was led on this path by Dr Yang's teachings myself. For many years, I completely agreed with his assessment of chi, and his way of explaining it to the western mindset. For the most part, I still do agree with his assessment.

 The problem is with the limitations imposed by Einstein's physics. Relativity breaks at the subatomic level. And while we know that some particles have a charge, We still don't know where the Charge itself Originates from.  It's like knowing one is wet, and the other dry, but not knowing the source or nature of the wetness.
 The previous physics model, the Aether physics model, has actually seen a resurgence in popularity (Along side such things as Chaos theory and String Theory), because it answers many questions that the Relativity model can't cope with. There are many types of energy in Aether physics, which actually includes consciousness (Yes, thought is one of the subjects explained with physics math within Aether theory.) Putting Chi into this framework rather than the modern relativity framework opens up the possibilities of chi having seemingly "magical" properties, Since the aether model actually allows for this, theoretically. For example, Aether theory explains gravity with mathematically correct equations, and can predict the gravitational pull of an object in motion with startling accuracy, as well as the way light will interact with those bodies in motion and their gravity. It is theoretically possible to effect gravity with consciousness, light, and also pure (non mass) kinetic energy, and vice versa.
           
 Consider this: please look into the theory of Orgone energy,( which was predicted using Aether mathematics.), and tell me it doesn't sound like some of the stuff we try to do with chi. As I understand this, it could be called the emotive force of electricity and of gravity, sort of like raw kinetic energy with no mass.
       This in itself i Find interesting, because although we recognize kinetic energy as ENERGY, we always use it in the framework of mass and movement. Now Mass itself has no kinetic energy, unless we start it moving. Furthermore, kinetic energy is used to generate electricity, and can also generate heat. Apparently, if you cause some substances to vibrate, it stimulates emission of various types of energy. All of this is essentially the same energy, just semantic differences. Orgone, motive force, kinetic energy, whatever, just semantics.
        Energy does not cease to exist, it transforms.
        Could our chi be Orgone of biological origin?  Essence and shen and jing, all of these things just tools for us to interact with raw kinetic energy, AKA Aether or Orgone?
                 I would have loved to see Nicolai Tesla doing qigong.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: AB on January 06, 2008, 11:54:51 AM
ok so its false, but woudnt it still work the way we would want it to work if we just"tweaked" the techniques a lil bit? agh, theres lots of things wrong with ur explanations and i dont know where to start... so i wont start, because im goin sailing in 10 minutes! :biggrin: :wink: :biggrin:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on January 08, 2008, 12:33:45 AM
"Tweaks" can be done, but being that those "tweaks" wouldn't emulate anime well enough for the people who are into Radki to accept it.

That, and the "tweaked" versions would actually require real training and hard work to learn.  Radki kids hate not being promised immediate power.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: MaverickZ on March 15, 2008, 10:04:59 AM
Assuming you trained the proper way, what tweaks would you apply and what effect would you achieve?  I'm seriously interested.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on March 28, 2008, 11:00:33 AM
Assuming you trained the proper way, what tweaks would you apply and what effect would you achieve?  I'm seriously interested.

Just stylistic things that give small nods and winks to anime while still being effective.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Energy worker on April 26, 2008, 10:31:29 AM
Well, this makes me, being primarily a psion, feel like a craphead. :)  But, for some radki shit, um,
http://members.fortunecity.com/kisociety/undergroundsociety
theteachingsofki.tripod.com
www.geocities.com/kitechniques/Ki_blast.html
http://www.freewebs.com/warrioroflightx/

etc.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on April 26, 2008, 01:43:33 PM
Yeah.  All of those are really old abandoned sites.  There's another thread on here that leads to http://www.freewebs.com/kivillage

Apparently a few friends got together and made a few Radki sites on Freewebs and they all talk amongst each other through their guest books.  Nothing that requires a huge raid or anything.  Mainly I've just been providing links to YouTube videos that advertise ideas about real fighting rather than just spamming, "DBZ isn't real and you're not an Avatar character, assholes!"
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Jeckel on May 01, 2008, 02:04:48 PM
YOU ARE THE LAST GENDER BENDER!
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on May 01, 2008, 02:55:24 PM
YOU ARE THE LAST GENDER BENDER!

Based in the legendary Prince Yamato's Ninjutsu, right?  :HA!:

http://www.ninpo.org/ninpohistory/ninpohistory.html
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Allelelujha on June 16, 2009, 08:15:00 AM
as a person who practiced radki in the past i can say its a good way to get people involed with chi and other energy arts, which is most important i belive
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tienshinhan on October 04, 2009, 02:05:02 AM
This is a very informative article and explains constructively how radical ki is rooted in falsehood. I was cautious at first about venturing into this topic, because I realise there are many that may remember me for being one of the people responsible for helping to spread it at a much younger age.

To be honest, I think, in my humble opinion, to start out with energy training in general, is not a very good idea. I believe that people should conduct physical fitness and excercise first and foremost, then learn a fighting style before going into the spiritual or energetic aspects of anything.

I believe weight training and cardiovascular conditioning, as well as a healthy diet, should be the top priorities. Donjitsu2 has inspired me to train with kettlebells and I've been experimenting with various weight lifting regimens. You should all visit "Metaphysical Boxing," his online blog of an E-book he'll be finishing up (if he hasn't already, I have not visited in quite some time.)

As far as radical Ki goes, I think it is nothing more than using the imagination, and is generally useless - unless you're using it to get hyped up emotionally for a workout, or perhaps.. a mosh pit at a concert.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Turnip Knight on October 07, 2009, 02:35:26 PM
Was everything rooted in radki a lie? Because i got some seemingly real results from it, such as the ability to feel someone's power compared to mine. If this was real, then what kind of power was i sensing? I still am not sure whether i was just sensing their auras or something else. Someone please help!

If radki taught me one thing, it was the ability to visualize and focus on one thing for a while. It doesn't deserve ALL the harsh criticism it recieves, only a lot of it.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: kobok on October 08, 2009, 12:19:08 PM
Was everything rooted in radki a lie? Because i got some seemingly real results from it, such as the ability to feel someone's power compared to mine. If this was real, then what kind of power was i sensing? I still am not sure whether i was just sensing their auras or something else. Someone please help!

The two most probable explanations, most probable first:  1.  You were sensing your own imagined perceptions.  We call this analytical overlay, but basically it's just you perceiving what you think the answer will be.  2.  You were sensing the relative amounts of energy around yourself or around others.  If this one, it would be a mistake to consider this "power", as energy can be acquired and discarded at will, and thus is not really a reflection of capability at all.

It doesn't deserve ALL the harsh criticism it recieves, only a lot of it.

The real problems with it are that the approaches advocated for learning result in a lot of mistaken impressions (like explanation 1 above), and in the cases where people DO accomplish actual metaphysical techniques with it (like explanation 2), these are usually interpreted so poorly through the lens of cartoon analogies that it muddles the understanding of what is actually done, which in turn, limits the potential for more learning more complex things.

There are some good life lessons in there, in that you have to be careful which unrelated concepts you mix, because combining ideas has consequences for gaining understanding.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Turnip Knight on October 08, 2009, 05:42:47 PM
OH i see. Makes sense now. Thanks for the help bro!
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tienshinhan on October 08, 2009, 06:04:14 PM
I think the biggest problem is that a lot of people believed RadKi would grant them superhuman abilities, or used RadKi as an alternative to conventional weight training, gym excercises, and cardiovascular conditioning.

I still use a few concepts from RadKi. Dorky as it may sound, sometimes in the gym I just imagine a huge aura around me while maxing out on the benchpress. It's not all bad just as long as you don't let it go to your head, or make you delusional.

And I will straight up admit, I was, at one point in time, one of the RadKi kids that believed I could fire Kamehamehas. But as time went on I joined the army and grew up a bit, and learned some actual Army Combatives along with several diet and workout plans..

Nothing builds Ki better than plenty of protein, intense weight training, and lots of water and meditation. Balanced diet, excercise, and meditation. That's the way to go!
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: psimaster70 on October 08, 2009, 08:50:53 PM
The man whose post is above mine is wiling to admit that he use to beleive in kamehamehas... probably one of the most honest people in the world...
good trait to have.  As for the aura and benchpressing deal, I do something similar, I just imagine channeling my energy completly to the muscles involved in a given lift, and lift it like I hate it. Works for me.  :P
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tienshinhan on October 08, 2009, 09:58:34 PM
The man whose post is above mine is wiling to admit that he use to beleive in kamehamehas... probably one of the most honest people in the world...
good trait to have.  As for the aura and benchpressing deal, I do something similar, I just imagine channeling my energy completly to the muscles involved in a given lift, and lift it like I hate it. Works for me.  :P

No sense in hiding it, really. All the oldbies know me by "Chrono," and yeah. It's pretty much out there, lol. But sometimes I guess it takes a bit of mockery to get people to straighten up, you know? I hate to say it, but, when I used to be mocked, it made me angry enough to want to do something about it.

Lifting weights got me a lot better results than trying to get my POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!! *breaks computer mouse*
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: psimaster70 on October 08, 2009, 10:12:31 PM
yeah, i use to "practice" too.. as much as i hate to admit it. As for lifting weights, I recommend doings as many sets as possible with your three or four  rep max, got me amazing strength results fast. lifting heavy, Hail tsatouline the evil russian!!!

[/quote]
 Lifting weights got me a lot better results than trying to get my POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!! *breaks computer mouse*
[/quote]
 

            *POWERS UP WITH KI FLAME  "n0T  P0zzible!!!!!!!!!!!!! jafoe#83jhfa983Wfj83!!@$    aLL Liesss!!!!!1111!!one!!1111one!!1" *ATTEMPTS TO BRAKE COMPUTER MOUSE, FAILS, HURTS HAND, RUSHES OUT OF BASEMENT CRYING*
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tienshinhan on October 08, 2009, 10:22:39 PM
That's my same workout plan, actually. I start out with about 275 lbs. (that's like.. 120 kg I think?) and press it for two sets of three. Then I lower the weight about 20 lbs., or just lower it 10 lbs. if it's a heavy lifting day, and do that for 2 sets, and so on..

Once I get to where I do 275 lbs. 10 reps I'll move on to 285. I was maxing at 310 lbs. in Iraq, but I wasn't doing too many reps on the lower weight. I'm trying to balance muscular strength and muscular endurance, it's very hard..
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: psimaster70 on October 08, 2009, 10:52:58 PM
I randomly guessed your workout plan? Weird. Muscular endurance is a pain in the a$$ but in the long run its worth it. Me, being a martial artist, I just do lots of sumo squats, situps, running, and punching with dumbells, the easy way out compared to how most people go about it.  This may be an annoying question, but is being in the military worth it? see, i have this cunning plan, I already have a crew cut so they couldnt feel like they taken anything from me, lol. But seriously though, is it worth it?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tienshinhan on October 09, 2009, 03:51:02 AM
It depends. I really needed a job and I needed to get out of my mother's house, she was a religious control freak and never let me out of the house. So I wasn't really going anywhere with my life til I joined the army. You do have to do a lot of bullshit. You're going to get yelled at. You will get in fights sometimes. If you never got out of mama's house, you'll see the world. I learned a lot of social skills from the army.

The hardest part about the army is learning to be responsible and to depend on nobody but yourself. Only you are going to get yourself past Basic Training / Boot Camp. They can tell you how, but you have to do it. Only YOU are going to get that promotion. Only YOU are going to ace that next fitness test.

There is teamwork and discipline and it's like being in a family sometimes. During boot camp / basic training, and job training phases, it's a lot like highschool. I wouldn't trust anyone at all, because that's the time that the people that are troublemakers get kicked out and such.

Some days I hate the army, and some days I love it. But come on. FREE health care. I can walk into a doctor's office for free on this base any time I want to. I can get free food, a steady paycheck twice a month, and no living expenses except for my internet and cell phone bill.

Do I have to be tough and deal with some fucked up shit? Hell yeah I do. But if you can deal with the bullshit and the tough training then it will pay off, and you'll feel so much better about yourself. Just look at how I used to be before I joined the army. A radki kid nobody that never got laid or went to parties. Look at how I am now compared to how I was then.

It will make a life change in you. And you'll feel so much better about yourself because you know your place in life.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Tienshinhan on November 15, 2009, 06:43:12 PM
This is not a double-post since I last posted in this topic October 9th. Apparently because Bullshido has left the "Transformations" document up, some radki kids still think it is real and once in a blue moon I get emails asking 'how to become Super Saiyan.'

Here is an example of the retarded emails I receive, and I am copying and pasting my rebuttal to all of these emails to end all of the requests sent to my email right now:

http://www.thekisanctuary.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1271&p=5249#p5249

Allow me to explain a bit. Back in 2003, some kid from FightAuthority, an older martial arts community similar to Bullshido, added me to msn and started talking to me. He claimed he was a blackbelt in a martial arts style that didn't exist. He was about 14 or so.

He then asked me for this 'transformations' document I was passing around, so I gave it to him. In no time at all after I made him promise not to post it, he posted it on FightAuthority forums. Matt Breyers, the head honcho there, thought it was hilarious, so he posted it on Bullshido without even asking if I wrote it or not, and said "Ki Sanctuary Secret Document."

Everyone was laughing about it, and my reputation was further fucking ruined. Of course, none of those fucks cared - instead of trying to help people they'd rather just laugh and make fun of others instead of legitimately getting them on the right track and coaching them.

Now I keep getting random pricks emailing me once in a blue moon asking "OMG HOW DO YOU TURNZ SUPER SAIYAN?" Well this is a message asking you Radki kids to shut the fuck up. You can't turn Super Saiyan. You can't fire KI BKLASTAS AND BLOW UP BUIOLDINGS!!!111111!!ONEO!!#$#@!$#@$@!!

You need to eat lean meats, vegetables, and fruits. You need to lift weights, with proper form, focusing on the major muscle groups, and you need to do cardio afterwards. And most of all, you need to stop fucking throwing Ki Blasts and take up a boxing class and start hitting on the heavy bag.

You need to destroy Radki and start picking up good gym habits and meditation instead of impersonating anime characters. Please, for the love of God, STOP USING RADICAL KI.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 10, 2010, 07:26:44 PM
I noticed the funniest thing the other day.

Despite all efforts to right the wrongs of Radki, it came back in another form completely independent of any sort of Radki influence: Element Bending like on Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Anyone who has watched the show a decent amount and may have researched the background of the show knows that all the element bending methods are based on different types of Kung Fu. All the bending is really just metaphorical of the "personalities" of the four (five if you count Toph's unique style of Earthbending) distinct Kung Fu styles used.

Of course, on these "How to bend the elements" pages online, nothing of Kung Fu is mentioned at all. Just a bunch of standing around and visualizing. On some sites, it's gotten to the point where people are coming up with new "elements" to bend (like Time...?) for some reason.

It was gonna happen one way or another. Kind of like Terminator after the second movie.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Willi on July 11, 2010, 08:42:07 AM
Wait. So we really CAN bend the elements like the the Avatar?

ZOMG!!11! PLS TEACH ME PLS PLS PLS PLS IUD B LYK DER SUPAH SAYOONZ WIF MY GOLDN HAIRZ ND LIK BOOOM ND THEN CUMS DAH AVATAH WIF HIS SUPAH PAWAZ ND LYK BOOM BOOM BOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!  :elephant: :elephant:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: donjitsu2 on July 11, 2010, 10:44:36 AM
I noticed the funniest thing the other day.

Despite all efforts to right the wrongs of Radki, it came back in another form completely independent of any sort of Radki influence: Element Bending like on Avatar: The Last Airbender.

Anyone who has watched the show a decent amount and may have researched the background of the show knows that all the element bending methods are based on different types of Kung Fu. All the bending is really just metaphorical of the "personalities" of the four (five if you count Toph's unique style of Earthbending) distinct Kung Fu styles used.

Of course, on these "How to bend the elements" pages online, nothing of Kung Fu is mentioned at all. Just a bunch of standing around and visualizing. On some sites, it's gotten to the point where people are coming up with new "elements" to bend (like Time...?) for some reason.

It was gonna happen one way or another. Kind of like Terminator after the second movie.


I almost didn't believe it. Then I found this:

 Learn To Bend [/bend]

 (http://www.freewebs.com/tidalchaos/index.htm)
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Willi on July 11, 2010, 12:52:17 PM
http://www.freewebs.com/tidalchaos/chicontrol.htm (http://www.freewebs.com/tidalchaos/chicontrol.htm)

I think that's the most amazing thing I've ever seen.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Shinichi on July 11, 2010, 05:06:31 PM
Believe it or not, this has been around for a few years now. Since the first season of the original show, actually. :P Lucky enough for me, I was wise enough to not fall for it when I first began studying this stuff.

Wait. So we really CAN bend the elements like the Avatar?

As silly as it sounds, part of the reason (like 1/5th of it) I originally did a search for Elemental Magic was because of Avatar. That search led me to Tomekeeper, and eventually here for Prophecy's Course on Elemental Magic. The latter, I think, is perhaps the closest you'll ever get to bending the elements. But who knows, maybe these benders will surprise us by bending over backwards.  :cow:



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Searching on July 11, 2010, 05:20:57 PM
Well, as a fan of avatar, I think this stuff is pretty awesome, and, I mean, I'm 20 years old, but when I'm alone I like to pretend I can do various bending techniques while practicing what seems to be nothing more than.... uh... kung fu.....  :elephant:

*ahem*

Now, I don't want to seem like some self righteous crusader or anything (too late for that? :P) but if various communities held claim makers to uh... you know... certain standards of evidence..... websites like this wouldn't be allowed to carry on like they do..... There, I said it!  :teethy:
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Willi on July 11, 2010, 05:36:29 PM
Shinichi, you know I was kidding right?  :confused:

And Searching, the moves on the avatar really mimicks closely some forms of kung fu. For example, the move the earth-benders do when they stomp their left foot against the floor, opening up a horse stance and making some sort of lying down S with their fists.

I also liked to pretend I was bending stuff when I used to watch it...  :P


Quote
Now, I don't want to seem like some self righteous crusader or anything (too late for that? Tongue) but if various communities held claim makers to uh... you know... certain standards of evidence..... websites like this wouldn't be allowed to carry on like they do..... There, I said it!  The Veritas Teethy!
What change would that make? Do you think they would close their websites because someone told them they were wrong? They most likely open up those websites with the intention of becoming a popular kid on their school, showing how they are 'masters' of bending and have mystical powers.

The guy has a section on his site titled 'My Moves'. He then describes two of his powerful secret moves, one of them being this:

"Hearing block
An amazing move that i myself use everyday either is school (haha can be so fun) or just messing about with friends now im not going to tell you how to do it because it can be very dangerouse but i may eventually let my secret slip."


That pretty much explains my point.  :D
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Searching on July 11, 2010, 05:42:30 PM
What change would that make? Do you think they would close their websites because someone told them they were wrong?

I mean they could, but they'd get no traffic. And everyone would say, "why don't you do it? That guy over there can do it... let's see you do it."

And if they could, cool. And if they don't, then even less people would go to the site, and eventually all sites like that would get pushed out of the internet by legitimate sources....
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Willi on July 11, 2010, 05:45:33 PM
The point is, I don't think they create their sites expecting people from outside of their social circle to come in. They just want approval from their friends.

And now, WHY are we dabbling about this? Ack, I declare this topic dead.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Shinichi on July 11, 2010, 05:47:57 PM
Shinichi, you know I was kidding right?  :confused:

No, you just thought you were! You were serious all along!  :P

But my point was more along the lines of "that stuff can lead to this stuff," kinda like how a lot of the old radki kids grew into tradki.



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 11, 2010, 06:10:15 PM
The point is, I don't think they create their sites expecting people from outside of their social circle to come in. They just want approval from their friends.

And now, WHY are we dabbling about this? Ack, I declare this topic dead.

My original point was, "Radki exists whether or not we're involved. I feel like I wasted my time crusading against Radki.  :HA!:"
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Qaexl on July 27, 2010, 10:25:53 AM
Wait. So we really CAN bend the elements like the Avatar?

As silly as it sounds, part of the reason (like 1/5th of it) I originally did a search for Elemental Magic was because of Avatar. That search led me to Tomekeeper, and eventually here for Prophecy's Course on Elemental Magic. The latter, I think, is perhaps the closest you'll ever get to bending the elements. But who knows, maybe these benders will surprise us by bending over backwards.  :cow:

(1) The episode on the chakra in Avatar is solid. That they were able to sneak in the essentials is pretty cool. The only thing about it is that, since the episode was only 20 minutes long and the character is the superbadass Avatar, well, of course it would take him a short time to open each of those up. The actual practice may be as short or take longer. It's quite an undertaking.

(2) The bending is a distraction. If you take away the bending and put the fight scenes where people are much closer to each other, those movements are what you can do with the shaolin, hung gar, and bagua (though the baguazhang only shows itself a little bit).

The best example is Season 1, Episode 2, where Zukko fights a duel with that Commander. Zukko's uncle kept saying from the sidelines, "break his root", and Zukko sends fire down to the ground at his opponent's feet. Without the firebending, that would be pretty much the game Zukko was playing, breaking the other guy's connection to the ground to force him off balance. Another one is the opening salvo where Zukko does a simple punch / flamethrower, and the Commander sidesteps. It's really difficult to convey to beginner martial art students that you need to use your feet to dodge the line of attack, and I've found it easier to show that with a spear simulator. A more subtle example is if you ever get a chance to see some good Southern Preying Mantis (there are a lot of crap out there) then see the video where they cram all the footage of Toff into a video. The cartoon series is pretty consistent like that.

So what was the bending for? They are part of the visualizations for those arts, made external so you can see it. It's like being able to peek into peeking what's going on in that particular art. Unless you were pretty good at receiving, someone can practice that stuff out in the park and never see the real thing. (I hear that was what Morihei Ueshiba did for years, did the neigong in the art right in front of his students with hardly anyone ever picking up on it). I'm frankly surprised they let the producers get away with it. It is also why the movie sucked, because it has none of these qualities in there.

-Qaexl
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on July 29, 2010, 10:05:02 PM
Of course. That's exactly why I find these "Bending" sites to be so funny. They're all about standing around and visualizing stuff. The people involved seem to have no concept of how each style comes from a real style of Gongfu and how certain essential things about Qi and meditation slip into the show. Instead it's all, "Stand around and visualize this and that."

If they just had a little sense, they'd look into how the show was made and decide to learn the martial art used as an influence for the Bending in the TV show.

They'll grow out of it, though. I'm not going to interfere.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Qaexl on July 30, 2010, 09:35:07 AM
Of course. That's exactly why I find these "Bending" sites to be so funny. They're all about standing around and visualizing stuff. The people involved seem to have no concept of how each style comes from a real style of Gongfu and how certain essential things about Qi and meditation slip into the show. Instead it's all, "Stand around and visualize this and that."

If they just had a little sense, they'd look into how the show was made and decide to learn the martial art used as an influence for the Bending in the TV show.

Heheh, well, you'd be surprised how the important thing isn't taught in martial arts either. It depends on the teacher. The arts associated with them are pretty spot on -- Taiji is "watery" in the sense of tidal forces, stickiness, dissolving of boundaries, etc. but I think that only scratches the surface. Yang-family taijiquan has some basic, named concepts, four being peng jin, lu jin, ji jin, and an jin; I had been experimenting with the theory that peng jin is earthy, lu jin is watery, ji jin is fiery, and an jin is windy. That is, you first develop structure, and then you develop redirection, stickiness, dissolving, then invading the structure of other people, and then detaching (the part most people see as fajin).

It makes more sense with a practice of this (http://www.occultcorpus.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10470). Essentially, the attitudes lets you hook in more with the corresponding chakra, which in turn gets you deeper into that particular attitude.

There are lots of other things snuck into that series. The "blood bending" posture is Search Needle at the Bottom of the Sea from the Yang-family (I don't think it is in Chen, but I've never played with Chen). The first time I learned it, it was a neat little wrist lock ... then later, I learned that wrist locks aren't wrist locks. You're controlling structure. And some other things. (Heh, thinking back just now, there's also that ankle throw the Chinese like to use out of that, but anyways). The separation of yin and yang to create lightning is pretty much the basic theory for thunder path wugong, including vajrayana. Though I suspect there are some ancient Greek practices related to this too.

I've been applying these attitudes to rhetoric too. (Not really my idea, Glenn Morris scattered hints about that all over his books, including pointing out an obscure book called Gui Gu Tzu. Come on down to the Gingerbread House!). I haven't quite matched it with the Greek notions of ethos, logos and pathos, but when I do have the presence of mind, it is nice to have all this extra stuff in the toolbox. Rhetoric is interesting in that, unlike many of the other ancient arts, it is appropriate and admired if you use rhetorics in modern society and you can use it all over the place ... yet few people set out to learn it.

But yeah. There is one (maybe even two) of the younger, fellow students that came out to baguazhang because they saw Avatar.

-Qaexl
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Fluidz on July 30, 2010, 03:27:58 PM
Wait. So we really CAN bend the elements like the Avatar?

As silly as it sounds, part of the reason (like 1/5th of it) I originally did a search for Elemental Magic was because of Avatar. That search led me to Tomekeeper, and eventually here for Prophecy's Course on Elemental Magic. The latter, I think, is perhaps the closest you'll ever get to bending the elements. But who knows, maybe these benders will surprise us by bending over backwards.  :cow:

(1) The episode on the chakra in Avatar is solid. That they were able to sneak in the essentials is pretty cool. The only thing about it is that, since the episode was only 20 minutes long and the character is the superbadass Avatar, well, of course it would take him a short time to open each of those up. The actual practice may be as short or take longer. It's quite an undertaking.

(2) The bending is a distraction. If you take away the bending and put the fight scenes where people are much closer to each other, those movements are what you can do with the shaolin, hung gar, and bagua (though the baguazhang only shows itself a little bit).

The best example is Season 1, Episode 2, where Zukko fights a duel with that Commander. Zukko's uncle kept saying from the sidelines, "break his root", and Zukko sends fire down to the ground at his opponent's feet. Without the firebending, that would be pretty much the game Zukko was playing, breaking the other guy's connection to the ground to force him off balance. Another one is the opening salvo where Zukko does a simple punch / flamethrower, and the Commander sidesteps. It's really difficult to convey to beginner martial art students that you need to use your feet to dodge the line of attack, and I've found it easier to show that with a spear simulator. A more subtle example is if you ever get a chance to see some good Southern Preying Mantis (there are a lot of crap out there) then see the video where they cram all the footage of Toff into a video. The cartoon series is pretty consistent like that.

So what was the bending for? They are part of the visualizations for those arts, made external so you can see it. It's like being able to peek into peeking what's going on in that particular art. Unless you were pretty good at receiving, someone can practice that stuff out in the park and never see the real thing. (I hear that was what Morihei Ueshiba did for years, did the neigong in the art right in front of his students with hardly anyone ever picking up on it). I'm frankly surprised they let the producers get away with it. It is also why the movie sucked, because it has none of these qualities in there.

-Qaexl

*Nods head, ya...generally everyone who is a Avatar fan said the movie sucked. That said...the only thing that was annoying was how bad the choreography of MA was (such as them trying to do taiji..only thing that I could barely recognize was the actors doing horse parting mane. The plot was fine (actaul cartoon was excellent IMO).

Out of curiosity Qaexl, since you do Baguazhang- do you focus on the hexagrams or just the center when you circle walk?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Qaexl on July 30, 2010, 04:52:57 PM
Out of curiosity Qaexl, since you do Baguazhang- do you focus on the hexagrams or just the center when you circle walk?

I haven't seriously held the hexagrams while walking the circle. The lineage I am training is, is Gao, one of the two (?) lineages that has linear Hou Tien forms. So to hold the hexagrams on the circle properly, I'd have to memorize the corresponding hexagram to each of the linears. I've already got ton of stuff I'm working on when I walk the circles, so if I ever get around to that kind of a practice, it won't be for a while. Besides, I'm only just starting to get a glimpse of the essence of some of the linears, so until I feel them more fully, that kind of a practice would be mostly intellectual rather than experiential.

-Qaexl
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on August 01, 2010, 11:22:48 PM
Of course. That's exactly why I find these "Bending" sites to be so funny. They're all about standing around and visualizing stuff. The people involved seem to have no concept of how each style comes from a real style of Gongfu and how certain essential things about Qi and meditation slip into the show. Instead it's all, "Stand around and visualize this and that."

If they just had a little sense, they'd look into how the show was made and decide to learn the martial art used as an influence for the Bending in the TV show.

There is one (maybe even two) of the younger, fellow students that came out to baguazhang because they saw Avatar.

-Qaexl

I'm glad that at least a couple kids got it right.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: fernadgille on January 22, 2011, 02:52:38 PM
Hi,

 I really had a great time so far.
IReally, for the first month of this year I only had luck ... lots of luck.

Greeting
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Hand Solo on February 28, 2012, 01:07:01 PM
So in sintesis this Radchi is nothing than a ARG?

This reminds me of the John Palifoxkey bs that for a while wandered on several forums...

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55378

Im thinking of that, because I've just finish reading tons of tons of pages on that story.
 So I was thinking if it was something along the lines?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on May 10, 2013, 04:03:46 AM
Hand Solo, no, not really an ARG, it just takes time, dedication, and using more along the lines of the original writings that was written rather than all the "teachings" later sites came up with, for most results.  Visualization's a great tool for manipulating Ki (Yes, I know you call it Chi.  I call inner life force Ki, and life force from my surroundings Chi, and I always will do so, because it's the way I was taught, and the way I've been practicing for... 14?  15 years now?)  And since noone else seems to be around to defend the original stuff, I thought I'd post here when I started seeing someone claiming it's an ARG of all the stupidity.

No, it isn't.  It's a method of manipulating your life force that had a lot of flack because it went from "Seeing if manipulating Ki like out of an anime" went to "I'm a SUPER SAIYA-JIN!  FEAR ME!", and the community pretty much as a whole collapsed over the course of 5 years from rampant stupidity.  And people didn't quite realize that to be able to feel Ki around their bodies, they had to sensitize their bodies to Ki in the surrounding air, much like they did with the Ki Ball/Psi Ball combination exercise initially used as the basic step to Ki manipulation that Mystery Shadow posted.  Without being able to feel Ki in the surrounding air, and people dumbing down the techniques... the community fell apart rather quickly.  People trying to develop techniques far too advanced for them also didn't really help in this case.

And people having their muscles shift from proper Radki manipulation like the results they WANTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, often assumed it was "Super Saiya-jin!" and running to the DBZer crouds, didn't help, at all.  (This was back when a lot of them relied on japanese with english dubs, which, admittedly, had far superior music...but was still too much screaming for no reason and them shouting like they were trying to take the world's longest dump.)

Me?  When I realized the DBZers had nothing like the weird phenomenon I witnessed, I trolled the DBZer crouds, except for a couple of people I taught myself, and convinced one of their two warring "Kings" that a picture from FANART of Dragonball Z, was the "royal insignia" for Saiya-jin in it, and that they had to comply with it if they wanted to be considered "True Saiya-jin royalty".

Their new site popped up 3 days later, and let me tell you, I had a GOOD laugh over it all.  Morons never realized that it was Fanart, or looked beyond the "Oooh, official looking art!" and looked for the source.  Saiya-jin royalty, my ass.

Back to my reply, though.

Radki has a few unique benefits to it, that most other energy manipulation styles I've studied, don't.  For example?  It increases blood flow, and blood circulation in other people.  I've gone on walks with a family member that had huge problems with blood circulation in winter, and one year, decided to try and pour Ki into their hands, after a long walk that left their hands looking more like wax from the sheer lack of blood in them.  30 second walk to the mail box, channeling Ki into one hand, one way, and the other hand, on the way back?  When we got back home, she was amazed to see her fingers bright red from blood circulation as if she'd never gone on a walk in the middle of winter, and instead was in front of a heater the whole time.

Another would be eyesight deterioration being countered by it.  I've got 3 years worth of medical records showing my eyes didn't deteriorate, and I didn't need new pairs of glasses, from me experimenting with pouring Ki into my eyeballs until my eyes itched from the amount I poured into each eyeball.  Even now, it's a lot slower than it was when I was young, where I went from having decent eyesight to having problems reading a blackboard 8 feet in front of me, and then reading anything 3 feet in front of me without glasses.  Eventually it got to be about half a foot before I started, and has stayed stable ever since, with my monthly application of this method.

So no, Radki isn't an ARG, it just has a lot of detractors because most people either A. Decided Traditional methods were better, and threw out their Radki techniques, or B. Just decided to give up on it all together.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 29, 2013, 11:14:41 PM
No. Just no. Stop.

Radki is pretty much dead except for a handful of bad Avatar sites, and Radki is garbage. It's garbage because it's all made up and it is nothing but visualization based on anime. Compare this to traditional Qigong and martial arts that have existed in China for almost 4000 years, and have been scientifically proven to work.

From the things you've said, I can tell for sure you haven't been practicing for 15 years. Certainly not traditional Qigong, like I have, for 15 years.

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Another would be eyesight deterioration being countered by it.  I've got 3 years worth of medical records showing my eyes didn't deteriorate, and I didn't need new pairs of glasses, from me experimenting with pouring Ki into my eyeballs until my eyes itched from the amount I poured into each eyeball.  Even now, it's a lot slower than it was when I was young, where I went from having decent eyesight to having problems reading a blackboard 8 feet in front of me, and then reading anything 3 feet in front of me without glasses.  Eventually it got to be about half a foot before I started, and has stayed stable ever since, with my monthly application of this method.

Congratulations. You've just posted the single dumbest thing I've seen on Veritas in probably 5 years.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on May 30, 2013, 02:48:49 AM
No. Just no. Stop.

Radki is pretty much dead except for a handful of bad Avatar sites, and Radki is garbage. It's garbage because it's all made up and it is nothing but visualization based on anime. Compare this to traditional Qigong and martial arts that have existed in China for almost 4000 years, and have been scientifically proven to work.

From the things you've said, I can tell for sure you haven't been practicing for 15 years. Certainly not traditional Qigong, like I have, for 15 years.

Ahah... aren't you acting like a jerk.  Like I care if the bulk of Radki is dead?  I know what works and what hasn't, for me.  And unlike others, I've tried to learn from what I did, and applied the scientific method of "Does this work?  If it doesn't, then what am I doing wrong, here?" rather than "Oooh, yes!  I'll just continue the same thing over and over like a retard!" like those Avatar sites, the DBZers, and everyone else before them that just followed things without trying to make it better, or figure out how to make it work more like it should.  Don't even get me started on the people that banned techniques just because they weren't well liked at the time.  I still have a copy of that guide on Lentation, after all, that this site produced.

Back to my counter statement, though... I took the stuff that worked, and continued studying it, until I figured out how to make it work BETTER, and worked out a lot of flaws with it in the process, still working mainly on a concept of combining traditional methods with psionics.  That's what Radki was in the first place, after all.

Also, by acting like this, aren't you breaking the rules of this site?  You're not supposed to insult other people's methods, after all.

To quote the rules: "Be respectful of other systems, styles, and approaches."  You're supposed to be following this, you know, just as much as everyone else.  ESPECIALLY as a teacher.

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Another would be eyesight deterioration being countered by it.  I've got 3 years worth of medical records showing my eyes didn't deteriorate, and I didn't need new pairs of glasses, from me experimenting with pouring Ki into my eyeballs until my eyes itched from the amount I poured into each eyeball.  Even now, it's a lot slower than it was when I was young, where I went from having decent eyesight to having problems reading a blackboard 8 feet in front of me, and then reading anything 3 feet in front of me without glasses.  Eventually it got to be about half a foot before I started, and has stayed stable ever since, with my monthly application of this method.

Congratulations. You've just posted the single dumbest thing I've seen on Veritas in probably 5 years.

Oh?  Well, I'm sorry, but medical records are medical records, and they prove me right.  Do you have ones that prove your techniques work, too?  Until then, all I can say is that you have no proof of your methods working, just like all the morons in the Radki field that I ignored and continued my studies while disregarding their stupidity, couldn't prove theirs, either.  When you can come up, and prove your techniques work, I'll say "Good for you!" just like I would anyone else that manages to better their lives with Ki.

In studying Ki, and mentoring people like I have for the last... 8 years?  And by practicing Radki during the entire time, I've made 3 people's lives better, and kept them from destroying their lives.  Can you say the same thing, Koujiryuu?  Can you honestly say that you've made the lives of at least 3 people better, being a mentor, teaching them and training them in what you know?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Shinichi on May 30, 2013, 07:57:15 AM
Before anything else is said, I would like to interject and gently advise both of you, and everyone else, to not turn this into a pissing contest of "my method is superior to yours/theirs" or similar nonsense. Practicality, efficiency, and traditions aside, there is nothing wrong with people developing their own methods--even if those methods are perceived as dangerous. It is every persons right to decide if they want to venture down a path that may be dangerous.

You are both adults, and although you may intensely disagree with each other and defend your methods and beliefs, you are both fairly intelligent and mature. This is a good opportunity to have a well rounded, respectful, informative discussion on this topic and hear the opinion of a fairly respectful radki practitioner defending his practice, for once, instead of the one sided arguments that typically take place. So discuss your opinions and your practices, but don't let your tempers turn this into something it doesn't need to be.



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Theopholis on May 30, 2013, 09:12:00 AM
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Another would be eyesight deterioration being countered by it.  I've got 3 years worth of medical records showing my eyes didn't deteriorate, and I didn't need new pairs of glasses, from me experimenting with pouring Ki into my eyeballs until my eyes itched from the amount I poured into each eyeball.  Even now, it's a lot slower than it was when I was young, where I went from having decent eyesight to having problems reading a blackboard 8 feet in front of me, and then reading anything 3 feet in front of me without glasses.  Eventually it got to be about half a foot before I started, and has stayed stable ever since, with my monthly application of this method.
Congratulations. You've just posted the single dumbest thing I've seen on Veritas in probably 5 years.
Oh?  Well, I'm sorry, but medical records are medical records, and they prove me right.  Do you have ones that prove your techniques work, too?  Until then, all I can say is that you have no proof of your methods working, just like all the morons in the Radki field that I ignored and continued my studies while disregarding their stupidity, couldn't prove theirs, either.  When you can come up, and prove your techniques work, I'll say "Good for you!" just like I would anyone else that manages to better their lives with Ki.

Just to be totally clear on this, RanmaBushiko, your medical records don't prove that your techniques work, just that your eyesight hasn't gotten worse. Changes in eyesight are not linear, and most often do stabilize for a time, and can even naturally reverse. I used to have to wear my glasses for everything, but over the last year and half or so I've found that I can see better without them at close distances, and actually have to take them off to read or use the computer. Proof that my eyesight is getting better, but not proof that it did so because I eat beets (smoke, dance, can fly, wrestle with sharks, or anything else).

Although Koujiryuu was a bit rude with you, he actually does have quite a bit of proof to back the things he's written. I would highly recommend that you go through the forums and read some of his articles. Especially this article. (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,2710.0.html)

Also, I can't help but notice some discrepancies in your given timeline:

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An old Radki user, still working to refine how it was originally taught. I've been studying since 1998, for 15 years of the stuff.
I've worked as a mentor online on AIM and MSN for the past 10 years of that time, as well

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In studying Ki, and mentoring people like I have for the last... 8 years?  And by practicing Radki during the entire time

A 7 year difference seems like a pretty big difference to me. You may want to adjust your signature to better reflect this, for the sake of credibility.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 12:37:23 PM
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Ahah... aren't you acting like a jerk.  Like I care if the bulk of Radki is dead?  I know what works and what hasn't, for me.  And unlike others, I've tried to learn from what I did, and applied the scientific method of "Does this work?  If it doesn't, then what am I doing wrong, here?" rather than "Oooh, yes!  I'll just continue the same thing over and over like a retard!" like those Avatar sites, the DBZers, and everyone else before them that just followed things without trying to make it better, or figure out how to make it work more like it should.  Don't even get me started on the people that banned techniques just because they weren't well liked at the time.  I still have a copy of that guide on Lentation, after all, that this site produced.

Back to my counter statement, though... I took the stuff that worked, and continued studying it, until I figured out how to make it work BETTER, and worked out a lot of flaws with it in the process, still working mainly on a concept of combining traditional methods with psionics.  That's what Radki was in the first place, after all.

Also, by acting like this, aren't you breaking the rules of this site?  You're not supposed to insult other people's methods, after all.

To quote the rules: "Be respectful of other systems, styles, and approaches."  You're supposed to be following this, you know, just as much as everyone else.  ESPECIALLY as a teacher.

There is one single fundamental flaw with this:

I'm not breaking that rule. Secondly, even if I were, I don't really care. I am entitled to my opinion.

Part of the reasons I am a Teacher is because I have proven so thoroughly why radki is bad and doesn't even deserve to be called a method. Again, it is nothing but visualization and imagination. Further, over 15 years I have gotten at least 20 radki sites to reform and switch to traditional practices, or otherwise shut their doors. The ones I didn't go to naturally closed down on their own because people realized the whole idea is stupid, and you can't throw energy beams in real life. Next to Kendamu, I am the person single most responsible for reforming radki. Next would be TheMistDragon.

The approach is bunk because it doesn't work and outside of the internet it has no real following. Compare this to traditional Qigong and the internal arts, which millions of people around the world practice off the internet, is backed by science and research, and has 4000 years of accumulated tradition and experience.

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In studying Ki, and mentoring people like I have for the last... 8 years?  And by practicing Radki during the entire time, I've made 3 people's lives better, and kept them from destroying their lives.  Can you say the same thing, Koujiryuu?  Can you honestly say that you've made the lives of at least 3 people better, being a mentor, teaching them and training them in what you know?

Actually, yes, because right now I'm running a Daoist Qigong Study Group (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/board,136.0.html) here on Veritas with 27 participants. I did this last year as well. I have written two articles recently, and in 10 years have written enough for someone to learn traditional Qigong from. (http://vsociety.net/index.php?title=User:Koujiryuu) These articles have helped many people and I have gotten many PMs about people having success with my techniques. I have helped people get into Yoga and awaken their Kundalini. I have personally helped with the training of 3 other Teachers on this site. Additionally, I frequently answer questions about Qigong and Yoga around Veritas, as well as promote my methods as a way to attain inner peace, tranquility, spirituality, harmony, oneness, balance and so on. Not only does Radki lack proper energy work fundamentals, proper breath work, correct intention, and correct visualization, but it also completely lacks the Qigong theory and philosophy that makes it a spiritual pursuit. The "Techniques" are all stuff people just make up, and they are almost always solely for the pursuit of personal power, and never about self transformation. So you see, I may come off "rude" or whatever but really... it's 2013. Veritas doesn't have any room for that stuff anymore. It's best to let it die.

I have done all this in addition to reforming Radki sites since about 2002, and even prior to that I was a leader of The New Mystics, and debated against Radki on MisteryShadow's boards, while doing my own research into traditional methods.

So if you really wanna question me or put it out there. Your last post until very recently was from 2007. (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,10953.msg118444.html#msg118444) You have little to no forum posts and negative karma. The majority of your posts are in this thread, where if we read through it, we see very solid evidence presented on all sides that Radki is junk for numerous reasons, that you are still basically ignoring.

Who do you think people reading this should believe? I have an actual open record and constant post history in helping people on this site since 2004... not to mention everything else I've done... and you have "claims" that you "mentor in ki for 8 years and have helped 3 people".

I can certainly claim I've helped more than 3 people. Hell, going from the combined read count of all my articles they collectively have over 100,000 views. I know each isn't unique. However, I know I've helped hundreds of people directly through this site and probably at least a few thousand more through my articles. And I wasn't teaching them bunk methods that have been disproven time and again since Mistery copied techniques from Skywind and posted them in his guide.

Radki might do something, but I know for a fact it pales in comparison to traditional training. Especially things like Iron Shirt, Iron Palm, Golden Bell, Xi Shui Jing, and others. Why use a fake internet substitute that's been made up by kids when you can study the real methods of the Shaolin Monks, for example? It makes no sense.

Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on May 30, 2013, 06:13:42 PM
I'm not breaking that rule. Secondly, even if I were, I don't really care. I am entitled to my opinion.

Part of the reasons I am a Teacher is because I have proven so thoroughly why radki is bad and doesn't even deserve to be called a method. Again, it is nothing but visualization and imagination. Further, over 15 years I have gotten at least 20 radki sites to reform and switch to traditional practices, or otherwise shut their doors. The ones I didn't go to naturally closed down on their own because people realized the whole idea is stupid, and you can't throw energy beams in real life. Next to Kendamu, I am the person single most responsible for reforming radki. Next would be TheMistDragon.

The approach is bunk because it doesn't work and outside of the internet it has no real following. Compare this to traditional Qigong and the internal arts, which millions of people around the world practice off the internet, is backed by science and research, and has 4000 years of accumulated tradition and experience.

The approach needed working on it, I'll agree.  Ki can't exist very far outside of the human body, without going heavily into psionics to keep it relatively stable for a few feet.  I don't disagree at all with that fact.  What I DO disagree with is the fact that it can't be utilized to manipulate Ki at all.  The problems that I saw with Radki is that people like you, instead of working to better it, decided that it was crap and not useful at all.

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Actually, yes, because right now I'm running a Daoist Qigong Study Group (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/board,136.0.html) here on Veritas with 27 participants. I did this last year as well. I have written two articles recently, and in 10 years have written enough for someone to learn traditional Qigong from. (http://vsociety.net/index.php?title=User:Koujiryuu) These articles have helped many people and I have gotten many PMs about people having success with my techniques. I have helped people get into Yoga and awaken their Kundalini. I have personally helped with the training of 3 other Teachers on this site. Additionally, I frequently answer questions about Qigong and Yoga around Veritas, as well as promote my methods as a way to attain inner peace, tranquility, spirituality, harmony, oneness, balance and so on. Not only does Radki lack proper energy work fundamentals, proper breath work, correct intention, and correct visualization, but it also completely lacks the Qigong theory and philosophy that makes it a spiritual pursuit. The "Techniques" are all stuff people just make up, and they are almost always solely for the pursuit of personal power, and never about self transformation. So you see, I may come off "rude" or whatever but really... it's 2013. Veritas doesn't have any room for that stuff anymore. It's best to let it die.

I've written a small manual I spread about to those that studied under me, myself, so I can see exactly where you came from.  I haven't had as many people studying under me, but over two dozen at my peak is a pretty good number, don't you think?  As for Radki, it indeed DID become what you're describing.  But if you had ever asked, instead of assuming that I follow that method, you'd learn that I studied it for self transformation and the persuit of knowledge, rather than just "Rar!  I have POWER!".  But you never have, and you instantly went on the offensive over it.  It's not USELESS at all, it's just that the techniques have needed to be drastically refined.

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I have done all this in addition to reforming Radki sites since about 2002, and even prior to that I was a leader of The New Mystics, and debated against Radki on MisteryShadow's boards, while doing my own research into traditional methods.

So if you really wanna question me or put it out there. Your last post until very recently was from 2007. (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,10953.msg118444.html#msg118444) You have little to no forum posts and negative karma. The majority of your posts are in this thread, where if we read through it, we see very solid evidence presented on all sides that Radki is junk for numerous reasons, that you are still basically ignoring.

Who do you think people reading this should believe? I have an actual open record and constant post history in helping people on this site since 2004... not to mention everything else I've done... and you have "claims" that you "mentor in ki for 8 years and have helped 3 people".

I can certainly claim I've helped more than 3 people. Hell, going from the combined read count of all my articles they collectively have over 100,000 views. I know each isn't unique. However, I know I've helped hundreds of people directly through this site and probably at least a few thousand more through my articles. And I wasn't teaching them bunk methods that have been disproven time and again since Mistery copied techniques from Skywind and posted them in his guide.

Radki might do something, but I know for a fact it pales in comparison to traditional training. Especially things like Iron Shirt, Iron Palm, Golden Bell, Xi Shui Jing, and others. Why use a fake internet substitute that's been made up by kids when you can study the real methods of the Shaolin Monks, for example? It makes no sense.

While you were dealing with Radki sites, I was dealing with the DBZer croud in a similar manner, pointing out the flaws in their arguments, pointing out things that they were screwing up with while trying to "ascend to a Super Saiya-jin", and generally trolling the bulk of the morons in charge, so I can't disagree with you on some of the sites being BS.  Heck, I'll say it right now.  Most Radki sites after Mystery Shadow's and the initial New Mystics, was full of crap. 

Instead of going along with the crap, I procedurally documented techniques that seemed to work, experimented with them, taught people that I mentored in Ki at the time, and worked out the scientific method of "Does this work?  If so, what seems to work most about it?  What's the least?".  One such student killed his pet Hamster while experimenting with Ki, by accident, and was able to effectively exhaust people with his techniques, while another noted that his techniques seemed to "guide" flame as he did so, much like Pyrokinesis.

Also, why on EARTH would I post about private subjects on a public forum?  No offense, but I taught them online over aim and msn, because they didn't want family issues and problems getting out.  Seriously, that's not smart at all.  Sure, you posted here, and good for you!  I just don't care to post about every little thing, or post much when I have other issues, and other problems to deal with such as real life, my reading addiction, and helping other people.

By 3 people, I mean people that would have killed themselves if I hadn't stepped in, Koujiryuu.  Not simply people that I simply mentored, but they actively were destroying their lives.  That goes to over 2 dozen people over all, that I taught, helped out, and trained with methods from Ki techniques that they could use effectively.  And honestly, I was helping one of those three with problems over his parents drug abuse, and his own inclination to do drugs as well, while teaching him enough so he'd be able to keep himself from focusing on the drugs, their rampant availability, and his own issues with wanting to smoke Pot all the time.  Another was suicidal, and to this day, has stronger than average suicidal depression, but has gone on to cope with it enough that they don't actively want to die anymore... which, 8 years ago when I met them, was so far away from the realm of possibility, that I can't tell you how many times I helped calm them down so they wouldn't take their own life.  Over 100 different times, at the very minimum.

As for "Fake internet substitute", did you even bother to work out the flaws?  Did you go, sit down, write out where the Radki was flawed, and where it worked, then tried to go over it like I did, until you could get something, anything to work out of it, noticing what would be best, and what gave no results at all, for person after person?

Or did you just denounce it as BS, and go on to teach the traditional methods?

I'm only on here because I'm sick and tired of people not seeing the way Radki CAN be used to be self transforming, and insist it's bunk.  Until recently, I didn't even care, until my gut said that I should write what I've learned for others in a better format.  And so I've been settling down, writing what I could, in an attempt to rewrite Radki to be something for others to understand, with what I DID learn rather than the bullshit "Reaching for instant power" most others did back then.  I've discovered a lot about the subject that lead me to it transforming my life, in ways that nothing else, not Traditional Chi, not Qi Gong, or anything else could have, because I kept my mind open and experimented, and studied, and let it teach me even as I studied how it worked for me.

Finally... Koujiryuu?  Look, we might have gotten on the wrong foot here.  But at the same time, let me be blunt.  I'm one of the sorts that goes by "Live and let live".  You don't start a flame war, and I won't continue fire in a flame war.  There's no way on earth, in any way shape or form, you're going to convince me that I'm wrong.  Nothing you say, nothing you do will convince me to give it up.  I'm going to be blunt about that.

But if you want to ask me questions rather than insisting that I'm going to instantly be wrong, I'll be happy to talk things over with you.  Ok?  I'm not going to say "I won't listen", but I've seen too much stuff with the methods I've developed while feeling what my Ki worked best with doing and seemed to guide me to do, to ever give up on that method and go to the traditional format.  Does that make sense?  I don't plan on writing a Radki guide, like I did before.  It wasn't the best, though it covered things that I couldn't explain very well in any other fashion.  However, it explained things well for beginners and people that I could teach more into the concepts of what they were trying to study.

Instead, I hope to rewrite the entirety of Radki, so instead of being about getting instant power, it's about self exploration and self advancement, like it should have been in the first place.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Steve on May 30, 2013, 06:30:22 PM
Just to jump in here a little:

Quote from: Koujiryuu
Congratulations. You've just posted the single dumbest thing I've seen on Veritas in probably 5 years.
"If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid."

4000 years of Chinese history doesn't mean that anything outside of that history doesn't exist. His techniques may not be superior, or may not even work, but he's stating that he's been using a technique that he described as quite similar to official visualization and energy moving techniques from more respectable sources. And he's got the results he wants. Whether the results are from the technique? *shrug* The only way to know is if his eye sight starts getting worse, or if he stops doing the techniques and his eye sight doesn't change.

Quote from: RanmaBushiko
It's not USELESS at all, it's just that the techniques have needed to be drastically refined.
If you're no longer using the techniques from Radki because they needed to be "drastically refined", then you're not really defending radki as not being useless ;)

~Steve
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 07:09:31 PM
Quote from: RanmaBushiko
The approach needed working on it, I'll agree.  Ki can't exist very far outside of the human body, without going heavily into psionics to keep it relatively stable for a few feet.  I don't disagree at all with that fact.  What I DO disagree with is the fact that it can't be utilized to manipulate Ki at all.  The problems that I saw with Radki is that people like you, instead of working to better it, decided that it was crap and not useful at all.

Qi can and does exist outside the human body. However, traditional Qigong focuses on Qi in the human body (Ren Qi)

The Qi outside the body exists and can be manipulated. In Psionics this is the conceptual domain and the energy plane.

It is very possible to affect the Qi of the environment around you through Qigong.

Quoting from my Qigong study group:

Quote
In traditional Chinese medicine and Qigong, the human body is thought to have many types of Qi. Some of these are:
Congenital Qi
        Inherited from our parents
        Gathered and formed at conception
        Stored in the Kidneys (testicles/ovaries)
        Determines basic constitution, strength and vitality
        Essential to growth and development
        Can be conserved but not replenished
        Composite of:
        Jing (Essence)
        Yuan (Original Qi)
    Acquired Qi
        Post Natal Qi
        Can be stored and replenished
        Composite of:
        Gu Qi (Essence of Food and Grain Qi)
        Kong Qi (Air Qi)
        Zong Qi (Gathering Qi)
        Zhen Qi (True Qi) - Composite of Ying Qi (Nutritive Qi) & Wei Qi (Defensive Qi)

So as you see, the Chinese have many different types of Qi. Furthermore, Qi is used in conjunction with other symbols to represent many types of energy. Not all of these types of energy are metaphysical or linked to the human body. For example, electricity is called Dian Qi. Tian Qi refers to "Heaven Qi" and can mean a thunderstorm or cloudy skies. A generic term for human Qi is Ren Qi. This is further divided into the terms above in Traditional Chinese medicine. In fact, there are many more than are presented above.

Qi in the general sense just means energy. It's when it's applied to the human body that it begins to get more interesting, and people start to disagree.

Quote from: Ranma Bushiko
I've written a small manual I spread about to those that studied under me, myself, so I can see exactly where you came from.  I haven't had as many people studying under me, but over two dozen at my peak is a pretty good number, don't you think?  As for Radki, it indeed DID become what you're describing.  But if you had ever asked, instead of assuming that I follow that method, you'd learn that I studied it for self transformation and the persuit of knowledge, rather than just "Rar!  I have POWER!".  But you never have, and you instantly went on the offensive over it.  It's not USELESS at all, it's just that the techniques have needed to be drastically refined.

Good for you. However, it would be more apt to describe radki, and what you do as Psionics. The original Radki was basically bad Psionics that focused too much on visualization and imagination. MisteryShadow (Which is how his name was properly spelled- Carey Martell) even admitted when asked that he basically took Skywind's techniques, added some basic breath techniques and meditations from his Tae Kwon Do class, and the result was his "Ki manual". Unfortunately, Radki lacks the fundamentals of traditional Qigong as taught in Martial Arts and Daoist Alchemy. It lacks ideas about the meridians, the three treasures, Yi and intention, the three Dantian, acupoints, herbology, emptiness and Daoism. So, it can't even be called Qigong. It is close to Daoist sorcery and kataphatic "filling" practices- forcing Qi into parts of the body with the will, which causes energy stagnation and blockages, delusion, Qigong Disease (http://kundalini.se/qigong-disease-sv.html) (seriously read this) and many other problems. The goal of Qigong is to balance Yin and Yang, and Qi, Jing and Shen, and unify the Body, Mind and Spirit. Radki, when practiced by most people, does none of these things.

Unfortunately, Radki cannot be called Psionics either. It lacks ideas about The True Nature of Psi (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,4853.0.html) and it lacks the concepts found in How NOT to Practice Psi (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,8783.0.html). As a result, it is a poor method of Psionics because it focuses on Tactile Feedback, the use of hands, overactive imagination, visualization without proper method and accounting for analytical overlay, and many other things.

Quote
While you were dealing with Radki sites, I was dealing with the DBZer croud in a similar manner, pointing out the flaws in their arguments, pointing out things that they were screwing up with while trying to "ascend to a Super Saiya-jin", and generally trolling the bulk of the morons in charge, so I can't disagree with you on some of the sites being BS.  Heck, I'll say it right now.  Most Radki sites after Mystery Shadow's and the initial New Mystics, was full of crap.  

DBZers WERE Radki sites for a time and we reformed all of them. The biggest one was The Follower's Society and "Super Saiyajin Reklaw".

I don't remember seeing you on that site debating their methods with me, Kendamu (Niio Gokuu), TheMistDragon, and The Mad Daoist. Many years ago I called myself Hiryuu, and I posted on Mistery's boards, and I do recall a certain fluffy Ranma poster there. I changed my name to Koujiryuu after TheMistDragon and TheMadDaoist steered me towards traditional Qigong and I got a copy of "Scholar-Warrior" by Deng Dao Ming and began practicing the methods in the book. In contrast to Radki, with the methods in that book I found immediate, positive spiritual results, and I never looked back. None of it involved visualization or "energy attacks".

Quote
nstead of going along with the crap, I procedurally documented techniques that seemed to work, experimented with them, taught people that I mentored in Ki at the time, and worked out the scientific method of "Does this work?  If so, what seems to work most about it?  What's the least?".  One such student killed his pet Hamster while experimenting with Ki, by accident, and was able to effectively exhaust people with his techniques, while another noted that his techniques seemed to "guide" flame as he did so, much like Pyrokinesis.

You seem to have difficulty distinguishing between lies and reality. The solid fact, is that many if not all of the people on the old Radki sites were lying about their results. Nobody ever had their hair stand up on end and turn yellow. Nobody killed anybodies' pet hamster. Aaron (who I remember) never started shooting blood out of his body after practicing RyuKakarot's stupid Kaioken technique (which was just filling the body with Ki and compressing it into the Dantian and then filling more Ki and compressing it- which again, is not proper use of the Dantian, is a filling method, and will lead to Qi blockage and stagnation). Cade Maikeru never learned how to fly. All this stuff was lies made up by kids to try and impress their peers and get attention on some dumb websites. If you really believe any of this stuff, almost 15 years after those sites were active, you are pretty much deserving of pity. I was there for the whole thing, I saw it all, I remember it all. And I learned in the process that people are liars, are delusional, and that they certainly weren't practicing real Qigong.

Quote
By 3 people, I mean people that would have killed themselves if I hadn't stepped in, Koujiryuu.  Not simply people that I simply mentored, but they actively were destroying their lives.  That goes to over 2 dozen people over all, that I taught, helped out, and trained with methods from Ki techniques that they could use effectively.  And honestly, I was helping one of those three with problems over his parents drug abuse, and his own inclination to do drugs as well, while teaching him enough so he'd be able to keep himself from focusing on the drugs, their rampant availability, and his own issues with wanting to smoke Pot all the time.  Another was suicidal, and to this day, has stronger than average suicidal depression, but has gone on to cope with it enough that they don't actively want to die anymore... which, 8 years ago when I met them, was so far away from the realm of possibility, that I can't tell you how many times I helped calm them down so they wouldn't take their own life.  Over 100 different times, at the very minimum.

What do you want, a medal? A cookie? Am I supposed to be impressed by this? It isn't a competition. I don't really care. Sounds like you're more of a therapist than an internal stylist.

Quote
As for "Fake internet substitute", did you even bother to work out the flaws?  Did you go, sit down, write out where the Radki was flawed, and where it worked, then tried to go over it like I did, until you could get something, anything to work out of it, noticing what would be best, and what gave no results at all, for person after person?

Or did you just denounce it as BS, and go on to teach the traditional methods?

YES. See above. I made a good explanation of why Radki methods are bad- Qigong disease, inducing Qi blockages, going against the flow, and so on. Of course I worked it out as being useless (or if not useless, than at least very misguided and bad Psionics) before abandoning it. The first clue was that the Ki shield didn't really work as advertised and block attacks from other people trying to hit me. The second clue was that no matter how many times I tried ki blasting objects, or people, it never worked. The third, was that the more I read into Daoism and traditional methods, the more I realized it was deeply spiritual and had wisdom, and none of the things I read online talked about wisdom (they all talked about power and hurting each other). It was immediately obvious to anyone with rational, logical reasoning that Radki was 1) made up 2) inferior to traditional practices and 3) potentially dangerous compared to traditional Qigong.

Quote
I'm only on here because I'm sick and tired of people not seeing the way Radki CAN be used to be self transforming, and insist it's bunk.  Until recently, I didn't even care, until my gut said that I should write what I've learned for others in a better format.  And so I've been settling down, writing what I could, in an attempt to rewrite Radki to be something for others to understand, with what I DID learn rather than the bullshit "Reaching for instant power" most others did back then.  I've discovered a lot about the subject that lead me to it transforming my life, in ways that nothing else, not Traditional Chi, not Qi Gong, or anything else could have, because I kept my mind open and experimented, and studied, and let it teach me even as I studied how it worked for me.

Finally... Koujiryuu?  Look, we might have gotten on the wrong foot here.  But at the same time, let me be blunt.  I'm one of the sorts that goes by "Live and let live".  You don't start a flame war, and I won't continue fire in a flame war.  There's no way on earth, in any way shape or form, you're going to convince me that I'm wrong.  Nothing you say, nothing you do will convince me to give it up.  I'm going to be blunt about that.

But if you want to ask me questions rather than insisting that I'm going to instantly be wrong, I'll be happy to talk things over with you.  Ok?  I'm not going to say "I won't listen", but I've seen too much stuff with the methods I've developed while feeling what my Ki worked best with doing and seemed to guide me to do, to ever give up on that method and go to the traditional format.  Does that make sense?  I don't plan on writing a Radki guide, like I did before.  It wasn't the best, though it covered things that I couldn't explain very well in any other fashion.  However, it explained things well for beginners and people that I could teach more into the concepts of what they were trying to study.

Instead, I hope to rewrite the entirety of Radki, so instead of being about getting instant power, it's about self exploration and self advancement, like it should have been in the first place.

Look. I really don't give a shit what you practice or what you believe. I tend to believe that with the technique you presented about gathering Qi in the eyes, that you have possibly induced Qi blockages in the head meridians and dispersal of Shen, that you have Qigong Disease, and that you should probably see an acupuncturist to get it straightened out, because it's intensifying your delusions of grandeur. You might not like the last sentence, but at least I'm being honest with you.

Live and let live is fine. I am not going to try and make you stop your methods, and if you really have been practicing all this time (and especially, meditating) then I would think you probably have at least SOME embodiment of Dao, and some spiritual wisdom. Do what you do, fuck the rest. However, I will not stand by and accept you trying to teach Radki methods to others on this site. I will pick apart the presented techniques rationally, step by step, to expose them as being fraudulent and potentially dangerous if you post them. I am not the only one who will do this, because Veritas is an open forum, I have many supporters, and there are many more people who prefer traditional methods to Radki. So, I suggest you take it elsewhere, because I can almost guarantee there is next to no one in the Body Energy Arts forums who is going to agree with your methods.

If you can come up with a Psionic approach to your methods (after all, Radki started as Psi- Mistery admitted this), that involves the principles of breath control, proper intention, the true nature of Psi, and keeps in mind the shortcomings of visualization, tactile feedback, working with hands, and bad Psionic practice... well good for you. Post it.

You should also keep in mind there have been many attempts at this already:

http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/manji/page37.html   (this one is actually good)
http://misterjester.tripod.com/misterjester/id1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ult/debiruman/tart1.htm (this one is pretty bad- keep in mind my articles teach what Jing really is and how to harnass it through Zhan Zhuang, and eventually use it with true Fa Jing, or explosive force, the one inch punch)
http://goku59.webs.com/howtobecomeazfighter.htm (What a joke... DBZ hasn't been cool for 15 years)
And of course Mistery's Ki Manual. I spoke to Mistery (Carey) many times. After he came back from the Army in 2004 after being on hiatus from his site, he made some "Chongun Warrior" Ki manuals that he charged $100 a piece for. They were basically his same old Ki manual with a bunch of Korean terms from his Tae Kwon Do class. Numerous people ordered these and never received one so we don't know what's in them. However, it is likely that it's just more stuff he made up. So let it be known, in the end, Mistery turned out to just be another conman trying to sucker people out of money. We argued against his methods, and he made new forums and a new website, and eventually shut them down because he couldn't handle that we were all dissecting and refuting his new material using our basis in traditional Qigong training.

If you would actually look through and read my articles- which all contain methods I got from various other Qigong stylists, the books of Dr Yang Jwing-Ming and Deng Ming Dao (both authorities on the subject)... you'd probably find that not only are my methods authentic but also that there's no reason for you to try and make such a "manual"..

The truly unfortunate thing is that people like you make more work for people like me. Because then when they come to Veritas and start posting all kinds of crazy ideas they have about Radki, we have to correct them and straighten them out. For example, threads like this (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,20584.0.html).

Please. If you want to practice these methods on your own, fine. They are not really Radki though, because ultimately Radki doesn't exist. It is not a proper esoteric method. It has been refuted time and again over the years. It has more in common with bad Psionics practice than anything. Just do me a favor- don't screw up other people with your methods and ideas.

Here's all the proof you need radki doesn't work: The Radki Challenge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiZKhIT33i0).
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on May 30, 2013, 08:27:36 PM
Quote from: RanmaBushiko
The approach needed working on it, I'll agree.  Ki can't exist very far outside of the human body, without going heavily into psionics to keep it relatively stable for a few feet.  I don't disagree at all with that fact.  What I DO disagree with is the fact that it can't be utilized to manipulate Ki at all.  The problems that I saw with Radki is that people like you, instead of working to better it, decided that it was crap and not useful at all.

Qi can and does exist outside the human body. However, traditional Qigong focuses on Qi in the human body (Ren Qi)

The Qi outside the body exists and can be manipulated. In Psionics this is the conceptual domain and the energy plane.

It is very possible to affect the Qi of the environment around you through Qigong.

Quoting from my Qigong study group:

Quote
In traditional Chinese medicine and Qigong, the human body is thought to have many types of Qi. Some of these are:
Congenital Qi
        Inherited from our parents
        Gathered and formed at conception
        Stored in the Kidneys (testicles/ovaries)
        Determines basic constitution, strength and vitality
        Essential to growth and development
        Can be conserved but not replenished
        Composite of:
        Jing (Essence)
        Yuan (Original Qi)
    Acquired Qi
        Post Natal Qi
        Can be stored and replenished
        Composite of:
        Gu Qi (Essence of Food and Grain Qi)
        Kong Qi (Air Qi)
        Zong Qi (Gathering Qi)
        Zhen Qi (True Qi) - Composite of Ying Qi (Nutritive Qi) & Wei Qi (Defensive Qi)

So as you see, the Chinese have many different types of Qi. Furthermore, Qi is used in conjunction with other symbols to represent many types of energy. Not all of these types of energy are metaphysical or linked to the human body. For example, electricity is called Dian Qi. Tian Qi refers to "Heaven Qi" and can mean a thunderstorm or cloudy skies. A generic term for human Qi is Ren Qi. This is further divided into the terms above in Traditional Chinese medicine. In fact, there are many more than are presented above.

Qi in the general sense just means energy. It's when it's applied to the human body that it begins to get more interesting, and people start to disagree.

Ok.  What I mean, it's nigh-impossible to manipulate a few feet out of your body for Dan Qi, or whatever term you wish to call it, unless you're insanely good with psionics, and only then.

Quote
Quote from: Ranma Bushiko
I've written a small manual I spread about to those that studied under me, myself, so I can see exactly where you came from.  I haven't had as many people studying under me, but over two dozen at my peak is a pretty good number, don't you think?  As for Radki, it indeed DID become what you're describing.  But if you had ever asked, instead of assuming that I follow that method, you'd learn that I studied it for self transformation and the persuit of knowledge, rather than just "Rar!  I have POWER!".  But you never have, and you instantly went on the offensive over it.  It's not USELESS at all, it's just that the techniques have needed to be drastically refined.

Good for you. However, it would be more apt to describe radki, and what you do as Psionics. The original Radki was basically bad Psionics that focused too much on visualization and imagination. MisteryShadow (Which is how his name was properly spelled- Carey Martell) even admitted when asked that he basically took Skywind's techniques, added some basic breath techniques and meditations from his Tae Kwon Do class, and the result was his "Ki manual". Unfortunately, Radki lacks the fundamentals of traditional Qigong as taught in Martial Arts and Daoist Alchemy. It lacks ideas about the meridians, the three treasures, Yi and intention, the three Dantian, acupoints, herbology, emptiness and Daoism. So, it can't even be called Qigong. It is close to Daoist sorcery and kataphatic "filling" practices- forcing Qi into parts of the body with the will, which causes energy stagnation and blockages, delusion, Qigong Disease (http://kundalini.se/qigong-disease-sv.html) (seriously read this) and many other problems. The goal of Qigong is to balance Yin and Yang, and Qi, Jing and Shen, and unify the Body, Mind and Spirit. Radki, when practiced by most people, does none of these things.

Unfortunately, Radki cannot be called Psionics either. It lacks ideas about The True Nature of Psi (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,4853.0.html) and it lacks the concepts found in How NOT to Practice Psi (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,8783.0.html). As a result, it is a poor method of Psionics because it focuses on Tactile Feedback, the use of hands, overactive imagination, visualization without proper method and accounting for analytical overlay, and many other things.

Quote
Quote
While you were dealing with Radki sites, I was dealing with the DBZer croud in a similar manner, pointing out the flaws in their arguments, pointing out things that they were screwing up with while trying to "ascend to a Super Saiya-jin", and generally trolling the bulk of the morons in charge, so I can't disagree with you on some of the sites being BS.  Heck, I'll say it right now.  Most Radki sites after Mystery Shadow's and the initial New Mystics, was full of crap. 

DBZers WERE Radki sites for a time and we reformed all of them. The biggest one was The Follower's Society and "Super Saiyajin Reklaw".

I don't remember seeing you on that site debating their methods with me, Kendamu (Niio Gokuu), TheMistDragon, and The Mad Daoist. Many years ago I called myself Hiryuu, and I posted on Mistery's boards, and I do recall a certain fluffy Ranma poster there. I changed my name to Koujiryuu after TheMistDragon and TheMadDaoist steered me towards traditional Qigong and I got a copy of "Scholar-Warrior" by Deng Dao Ming and began practicing the methods in the book. In contrast to Radki, with the methods in that book I found immediate, positive spiritual results, and I never looked back. None of it involved visualization or "energy attacks".

Yeah, I still remember Kendamu, as a poster poster, and I still remember you quite well from back then.  Yes, I'm still that same Ranma poster from ye old times, and Kendamu can still back me up if he wishes that we know each other, though I haven't seen him on msn (now skype) for years now.  It was... 2008?  2009?  Before we drifted out of contact with each other.

As for the Dbzers, you missed Koga and Cephas' little war between each other as self proclaimed Saiyan 'Kings' between 2006 and 2007 or so.  Trolling both groups into thinking fanart of Vegeta had the Royal Crown's emblem on it was fun, especially when they opened up new websites using that image specifically to show that they were the "True Saiyan Royalty of Earth".  Also, I remember both sites, and an asshole on the Follower's Society that claimed he lost half his brain's ability to comprehend math because of a deal gone wrong on the astral.  It's why I stopped really paying attention to sites like Veritas except for to glance over them, and quit posting on most boards all together because of that moron being so deluded.

The reason why I turned to the DBZers in the first place and even associated with them, was having a student, named Ian, lose it in a pool, and suddenly having yellow streaks of hair on his head.  His family verified he hadn't died his hair any time in the past, and he hadn't had any in the first place.  Suddenly staring at a blonde hair on an Asian 16 year old that wasn't there 5 minutes before really makes you wonder what the heck he pulled off.  I still have no reasonable explanation for that.  If you can come up with one, I'll be glad, because I have none whatsoever.  Asian kids with black hair don't spontaniously get blonde hairs in his head in the middle of a pool.  It's common sense, after all.

Quote
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Instead of going along with the crap, I procedurally documented techniques that seemed to work, experimented with them, taught people that I mentored in Ki at the time, and worked out the scientific method of "Does this work?  If so, what seems to work most about it?  What's the least?".  One such student killed his pet Hamster while experimenting with Ki, by accident, and was able to effectively exhaust people with his techniques, while another noted that his techniques seemed to "guide" flame as he did so, much like Pyrokinesis.

You seem to have difficulty distinguishing between lies and reality. The solid fact, is that many if not all of the people on the old Radki sites were lying about their results. Nobody ever had their hair stand up on end and turn yellow. Nobody killed anybodies' pet hamster. Aaron (who I remember) never started shooting blood out of his body after practicing RyuKakarot's stupid Kaioken technique (which was just filling the body with Ki and compressing it into the Dantian and then filling more Ki and compressing it- which again, is not proper use of the Dantian, is a filling method, and will lead to Qi blockage and stagnation). Cade Maikeru never learned how to fly. All this stuff was lies made up by kids to try and impress their peers and get attention on some dumb websites. If you really believe any of this stuff, almost 15 years after those sites were active, you are pretty much deserving of pity. I was there for the whole thing, I saw it all, I remember it all. And I learned in the process that people are liars, are delusional, and that they certainly weren't practicing real Qigong. 

I was SITTING in the house of my student as he killed it.  And he ran to me, telling me that it died as he was practicing on it, and he "didn't mean to kill it".  No offense, but seriously?  Tone it down a bit.  And like I care if you want to claim that I'm deserving of pity?  I don't care, as I said before.  Have a dead hamster in your hands, and tell yourself it's not dead doesn't change the fact that the poor guy's favorite pet was dead.

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By 3 people, I mean people that would have killed themselves if I hadn't stepped in, Koujiryuu.  Not simply people that I simply mentored, but they actively were destroying their lives.  That goes to over 2 dozen people over all, that I taught, helped out, and trained with methods from Ki techniques that they could use effectively.  And honestly, I was helping one of those three with problems over his parents drug abuse, and his own inclination to do drugs as well, while teaching him enough so he'd be able to keep himself from focusing on the drugs, their rampant availability, and his own issues with wanting to smoke Pot all the time.  Another was suicidal, and to this day, has stronger than average suicidal depression, but has gone on to cope with it enough that they don't actively want to die anymore... which, 8 years ago when I met them, was so far away from the realm of possibility, that I can't tell you how many times I helped calm them down so they wouldn't take their own life.  Over 100 different times, at the very minimum.

What do you want, a medal? A cookie? Am I supposed to be impressed by this? It isn't a competition. I don't really care. Sounds like you're more of a therapist than an internal stylist.

If you help other people in the process of practicing and teaching, what does it make you?  You seemed to think they didn't exist, and I was telling you about them.  That's all.

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As for "Fake internet substitute", did you even bother to work out the flaws?  Did you go, sit down, write out where the Radki was flawed, and where it worked, then tried to go over it like I did, until you could get something, anything to work out of it, noticing what would be best, and what gave no results at all, for person after person?

Or did you just denounce it as BS, and go on to teach the traditional methods?

YES. See above. I made a good explanation of why Radki methods are bad- Qigong disease, inducing Qi blockages, going against the flow, and so on. Of course I worked it out as being useless (or if not useless, than at least very misguided and bad Psionics) before abandoning it. The first clue was that the Ki shield didn't really work as advertised and block attacks from other people trying to hit me. The second clue was that no matter how many times I tried ki blasting objects, or people, it never worked. The third, was that the more I read into Daoism and traditional methods, the more I realized it was deeply spiritual and had wisdom, and none of the things I read online talked about wisdom (they all talked about power and hurting each other). It was immediately obvious to anyone with rational, logical reasoning that Radki was 1) made up 2) inferior to traditional practices and 3) potentially dangerous compared to traditional Qigong.

I discovered all this stuff myself.  Radki has flaws with the projection methods.  Under 3 feet works just fine, but not very well, unless you're insanely good with psi constructs.  Never said otherwise.  It's why I talk about rewriting it, and why I studied how it flowed for a good 8 years before returning to projection methods after people noticed problems with it.

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I'm only on here because I'm sick and tired of people not seeing the way Radki CAN be used to be self transforming, and insist it's bunk.  Until recently, I didn't even care, until my gut said that I should write what I've learned for others in a better format.  And so I've been settling down, writing what I could, in an attempt to rewrite Radki to be something for others to understand, with what I DID learn rather than the bullshit "Reaching for instant power" most others did back then.  I've discovered a lot about the subject that lead me to it transforming my life, in ways that nothing else, not Traditional Chi, not Qi Gong, or anything else could have, because I kept my mind open and experimented, and studied, and let it teach me even as I studied how it worked for me.

Finally... Koujiryuu?  Look, we might have gotten on the wrong foot here.  But at the same time, let me be blunt.  I'm one of the sorts that goes by "Live and let live".  You don't start a flame war, and I won't continue fire in a flame war.  There's no way on earth, in any way shape or form, you're going to convince me that I'm wrong.  Nothing you say, nothing you do will convince me to give it up.  I'm going to be blunt about that.

But if you want to ask me questions rather than insisting that I'm going to instantly be wrong, I'll be happy to talk things over with you.  Ok?  I'm not going to say "I won't listen", but I've seen too much stuff with the methods I've developed while feeling what my Ki worked best with doing and seemed to guide me to do, to ever give up on that method and go to the traditional format.  Does that make sense?  I don't plan on writing a Radki guide, like I did before.  It wasn't the best, though it covered things that I couldn't explain very well in any other fashion.  However, it explained things well for beginners and people that I could teach more into the concepts of what they were trying to study.

Instead, I hope to rewrite the entirety of Radki, so instead of being about getting instant power, it's about self exploration and self advancement, like it should have been in the first place.

Look. I really don't give a shit what you practice or what you believe. I tend to believe that with the technique you presented about gathering Qi in the eyes, that you have possibly induced Qi blockages in the head meridians and dispersal of Shen, that you have Qigong Disease, and that you should probably see an acupuncturist to get it straightened out, because it's intensifying your delusions of grandeur. You might not like the last sentence, but at least I'm being honest with you.

Live and let live is fine. I am not going to try and make you stop your methods, and if you really have been practicing all this time (and especially, meditating) then I would think you probably have at least SOME embodiment of Dao, and some spiritual wisdom. Do what you do, fuck the rest. However, I will not stand by and accept you trying to teach Radki methods to others on this site. I will pick apart the presented techniques rationally, step by step, to expose them as being fraudulent and potentially dangerous if you post them. I am not the only one who will do this, because Veritas is an open forum, I have many supporters, and there are many more people who prefer traditional methods to Radki. So, I suggest you take it elsewhere, because I can almost guarantee there is next to no one in the Body Energy Arts forums who is going to agree with your methods.

If you can come up with a Psionic approach to your methods (after all, Radki started as Psi- Mistery admitted this), that involves the principles of breath control, proper intention, the true nature of Psi, and keeps in mind the shortcomings of visualization, tactile feedback, working with hands, and bad Psionic practice... well good for you. Post it.

Induced Qi blockages?  Grandeur?  *sighs*  Whatever you want to believe, man.  Whatever you want to believe.  It's obvious you want to pick a fight just to pick a fight, after all.  I'm trying to not have an argument here.  Facts aren't grandeur, they're simple facts from where I stand.  I simply hope to help others see the things I've managed to barely attain, and hope others can follow in my footsteps and learn more.

I plan to write up some articles for people here, but seriously, could you tone it down?  I've learned a lot that I WANT to give out, like the reasons why people always had problems with the same individual techniques, and had to reinvent it for themselves, all the time.  Do you recall that problem, noted on The New Mystics, on MysteryShadow's forum, and other sites, too?

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Here's all the proof you need radki doesn't work: The Radki Challenge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiZKhIT33i0).

Been there, seen that.  It's why I continued working on the fundamentals instead of working on projection methods, for years and years and years, meditating and trying to understand what's going right, and what's going wrong.  Still brings me a chuckle, though, even now.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 08:52:32 PM
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Ok.  What I mean, it's nigh-impossible to manipulate a few feet out of your body for Dan Qi, or whatever term you wish to call it, unless you're insanely good with psionics, and only then.

Qigong, Psionics and Magick all use the same basic principles. It doesn't matter what you label it. It is quite easy to manipulate energy outside of the body but the applications are different. Within Daoist Alchemy we have a paradigm for the building of an energy body, strengthening Qi in the meridians, balancing Yin and Yang, and returning Jing, Qi and Shen to nothingness. With Psionics we have methods of making constructs, future selection, and other ways of influencing energy in the environment. Just because I do Qigong doesn't mean I don't do other things as well. Manipulating the energy outside the body is easy for me, and I have done tests to verify my results.

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Yeah, I still remember Kendamu, as a poster poster, and I still remember you quite well from back then.  Yes, I'm still that same Ranma poster from ye old times, and Kendamu can still back me up if he wishes that we know each other, though I haven't seen him on msn (now skype) for years now.  It was... 2008?  2009?  Before we drifted out of contact with each other.

As for the Dbzers, you missed Koga and Cephas' little war between each other as self proclaimed Saiyan 'Kings' between 2006 and 2007 or so.  Trolling both groups into thinking fanart of Vegeta had the Royal Crown's emblem on it was fun, especially when they opened up new websites using that image specifically to show that they were the "True Saiyan Royalty of Earth".  Also, I remember both sites, and an asshole on the Follower's Society that claimed he lost half his brain's ability to comprehend math because of a deal gone wrong on the astral.  It's why I stopped really paying attention to sites like Veritas except for to glance over them, and quit posting on most boards all together because of that moron being so deluded.

The reason why I turned to the DBZers in the first place and even associated with them, was having a student, named Ian, lose it in a pool, and suddenly having yellow streaks of hair on his head.  His family verified he hadn't died his hair any time in the past, and he hadn't had any in the first place.  Suddenly staring at a blonde hair on an Asian 16 year old that wasn't there 5 minutes before really makes you wonder what the heck he pulled off.  I still have no reasonable explanation for that.  If you can come up with one, I'll be glad, because I have none whatsoever.  Asian kids with black hair don't spontaniously get blonde hairs in his head in the middle of a pool.  It's common sense, after all.

I don't really care about all the DBZ stuff.

Well if anything at least we can reminisce. Cool that you can remember those old forums, and me. However, I'm telling you- I have seriously studied Daoism and all forms of Qigong since back then. I've read over a hundred books on Daoism and Qigong, including all the Daoist classic treatises on Qigong. I have spent many, many, many hours reading, and many more hours practicing traditional Qigong forms and meditation. You really don't understand just how much time I've invested in all this (though it should be somewhat apparent from my articles). I don't just make things up as I go along, and I don't just take techniques from books and post them online, either. The practices and theories in Radki are oftentimes in direct conflict with traditional Qigong and Chinese philosophy. To even compare the two like they are actual separate schools is ludicrious. Traditional Qigong has thousands of years of development in China and is a product of their culture. It is totally disrespectful to Chinese culture and the true Wisdom of the Daoists to compare Radki to traditional methods. Radki is essentially poor Psionics with a lot of fantasy thrown in.

Regarding the whole DBZ thing: pics or it didn't happen. You honestly expect me to believe that? Same reason I didn't believe it when Reklaw and RyuKakarot claimed it happened to them. It was no different in 1999 than it is now. It's a lie. It's also not physically possible or probable.

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I was SITTING in the house of my student as he killed it.  And he ran to me, telling me that it died as he was practicing on it, and he "didn't mean to kill it".  No offense, but seriously?  Tone it down a bit.  And like I care if you want to claim that I'm deserving of pity?  I don't care, as I said before.  Have a dead hamster in your hands, and tell yourself it's not dead doesn't change the fact that the poor guy's favorite pet was dead.

Ever think that he killed it by squeezing it too hard, or that it died from the anxiety of being held and possibly had a heart attack? I picked up one of our pet birds in my hand once and it's head rolled back and it died in my hand. I still feel really bad about it. I think it had a heart attack from the anxiety of being held. This was before I did any spirituality. If anything, this should show the level of maturity and wisdom you both possess: a small animal that is easily frightened is not a toy for your "ki games". This is nothing more than an example of animal cruelty.

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Induced Qi blockages?  Grandeur?  *sighs*  Whatever you want to believe, man.  Whatever you want to believe.  It's obvious you want to pick a fight just to pick a fight, after all.  I'm trying to not have an argument here.  Facts aren't grandeur, they're simple facts from where I stand.  I simply hope to help others see the things I've managed to barely attain, and hope others can follow in my footsteps and learn more.

I plan to write up some articles for people here, but seriously, could you tone it down?  I've learned a lot that I WANT to give out, like the reasons why people always had problems with the same individual techniques, and had to reinvent it for themselves, all the time.  Do you recall that problem, noted on The New Mystics, on MysteryShadow's forum, and other sites, too?

I don't want to pick a fight. Keep in mind, you brought this on yourself by making some rather incredulous posts, and then advocating for Radki.

I have taken a harsh stance on Radki ever since I started studying Chinese philosophy, Qigong and Martial Arts... because I truly respect and believe in the power of traditional methods. I don't see Radki as being an appropriate alternative. Neither do others.

If you go and ask kobok, I am very sure he will tell you there is a right way and a wrong way to practice psi. (His "How NOT to practice Psi" article shows this.)

If you hunt down and ask Prophecy if there's a right way and a wrong way to practice Magick, I almost guarantee you he will tell you there are many wrong ways of practicing Magick that are fruitless endeavors, and many deluded Magick practitioners.

In the same vein, Kendamu and myself will tell people beyond a shadow of a doubt: there is a right way and a wrong way to practice Qigong. There are the authentic practices of asian countries that have existed for millennia, and then there's Radki: a bunch of visualization and imagination that at worst doesn't do anything at all because it doesn't follow proper principles of energy work and relies on tactile feedback, and at best, messes up your meridians and Qi flow by inducing too much Qi into the body and can cause Qigong Disease, which like a domino effect naturally feeds more delusions.

Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on May 31, 2013, 02:52:36 AM
First off, for Qigong, etc. following the same principles, I can understand that.  The methods that I learned never worked well for moving ki into the air, and until I invented a method for myself that worked, the only thing that would ever work would be something akin to a 57 layered psi construct to hold Ki in a ball, strong enough for 7 different people to be able to feel by putting their hands through, with a maximum range I could move it, of about 15 feet distance away from me before it would dissipate.

For the weird crap that happened to my student/friend?  I'll try to get pictures, but it's been 7 years, and he moved out of his house twice since then.  I just wanted your opinion on what on earth happened to the guy, because Radki, Traditional Chi, and psionics doesn't seem to explain it at all, nor has anyone else I've asked.

As for my hamster killing student, he was a natural psi vamp.  Still, you could be right.  But he was "gifted" enough that he could make his sister go from normal to exhausted and sleepy in 2 minutes, in the car, with me and him talking the entire time, after she pissed him off pretty bad.

Finally, as for the "Right" and "Wrong" way to practice with your Qi, as you call it... sure, I can believe that for everyone there's a different route in practicing it properly.  My methods aren't yours, after all, and will never be yours.  But what works for one person won't work for another, as we all saw at the beginning of The New Mystics, and MysteryShadow's homepage.  But don't expect me to jump on your Qigong bandwagon when what works for me has worked superior to the other methods I read up on for over 10 years.

I've gone from "Visualization, and long periods of meditation" to "closing my eyes, and thinking about it, to feel it moving through my body as it naturally moves", through years of hard work and training with it, learning how to work with it and let it work with me and be more in tune with me better.  I'm not trying for tactile feedback, the tactile feedback is a side effect of clearing my mind and simply thinking about it, and how it's moving through my body, and my body becoming completely in tune with it as a result, as it flows through my meridians, and my chakras.

As for Qigong disease, I'll keep your point in mind.  But you shouldn't assume that all people that practice Radki has it, either.  One of my former acquaintances sounds like they had a case of it, but she barely practiced as it was, focusing mainly only on the astral plane instead of bettering herself here on the physical.  She eventually insisted she were going to be some sort of Goddess-Messiah or some crap like that, and it took her boyfriend dumping her to snap her slowly back into reality.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Theopholis on May 31, 2013, 12:12:12 PM
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Qigong, Psionics and Magick all use the same basic principles. It doesn't matter what you label it. It is quite easy to manipulate energy outside of the body but the applications are different. Within Daoist Alchemy we have a paradigm for the building of an energy body, strengthening Qi in the meridians, balancing Yin and Yang, and returning Jing, Qi and Shen to nothingness. With Psionics we have methods of making constructs, future selection, and other ways of influencing energy in the environment. Just because I do Qigong doesn't mean I don't do other things as well. Manipulating the energy outside the body is easy for me, and I have done tests to verify my results.


Sorry, I have to correct you there. The Metaphysics which predicates each of what you said are grossly different. For example, take sympathetic magic. Sympathetic magic revolves around the idea of associations based upon what something is like. Properties are derived from things associated with something relative to say sympathy. For example, take hematite. Hematite is red, like blood, so it is said to have properties that treat blood due to this. Then you have magic which is tied to the idea of contagion, or if objects were once in contact with one another, their properties interact due to that. Or, you have magic which revolves around the idea that a part of the whole is tied to the whole. For example, if someone takes a clipping of your hair, the idea is that the clipping will still be in contact with you where some spells can utilize this. My point with this is that sympathetic magic and magic that revolves around principles of contagion say nothing of subtle energy, in themselves. Sympathetic ideas came prior to humans coming to grasp the concepts of energy(there is evidence for prehistoric practices of this); therefore, one cannot argue that the principles of sympathetic magic use the same principles of say Qiqong if sympathetic magic came before it where prima facie sympathetic magic doesn't resemble say Qiqong(the idea in sympathetic and associative magical practices is that if objects have elements(properties) in common, that facilitation of control or influence over one object will create an influence on the other purely through the relationship they have in common per their properties which need not say anything about subtle energy of any sort). I come from a family tradition of folk magic.


I think, perhaps, that you misunderstand what he means. If you use programming languages as a metaphor, then each of the metaphysical arts (psionics, magic, body energy and so on) might have their own vocabulary, syntax, and interpreter, but at somepoint all of your code is getting run through the OS, and churned through layers of other languages until it's nothing more than ones and zeros.

Although each art is certainly unique, and some are easier for certain persons to understand (psionics suits me better than magic, and python suits me better than C#), in the end they're all operating on the same (meta)physics system, and are working at the fundamental-stuff-level in a very similar way.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 12:16:09 PM
That's pretty much what I was getting at Theopholis.

Of course Qigong, Psi and Magick are different in theory.

It's the underlying faculties of willpower, intent and understanding of the Soul that are developed by all of them that makes moving between them easy.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 12:45:08 PM
You could look at it that way, sure, and many people do.

Or, you could look at them as both being correct. Obviously, with less emphasis on the Qigong model as the root cause, but still a contributing cause, because of the Body, Mind and Spirit being out of alignment.

Look, I'm not a Traditional Chinese Medicine doctor so I can't really argue with you about the validity of TCM vs a biological, modern medicine cause. That is beyond the scope of this thread.

I do however know that things like acupuncture, acupressure, shiatsu massage, and other TCM ideas have been proven to have some basis and work over thousands of years.

If this is not an effect of subtle energy, it is an effect of stimulating the nervous system and the associated organs (which is essentially what TCM claims to do; stimulate the organs).

I know you don't believe that Qi is bioelectricity, however if you go and read the Week 1 theory from my study group there is a nice section on Qi as being bioelectricity in the human body. This is what my research and experiences have led me to believe.

No, it's not electromagnetic. Yes, energy exists outside of the body in different forms and is not limited. Even within the body, it is at the very least linked to bioelectricity, though it is not limited at all since it is a subtle energy controlled by the soul.

Further, I essentially doubt that you can truly understand this or appreciate, and I don't feel you are qualified to state the things you are stating, because you 1) Are not a Qigong practitioner and 2) Have stated numerous times that you don't work with energy, can't feel energy, and don't need energy. So, any evaluation of my paradigm or that of TCM completely lacks any kind of experience, subjective or objective, and is merely theorycrafting and speculation.

I don't really want to continue this, or debate what Qi is and isn't, because I have my beliefs and you have yours and I don't think we would really get anywhere.

I do appreciate your viewpoint and input but I'm going to have to disagree, because I have experience with and I understand the theory of Chinese Qigong and to a lesser degree TCM. I also understand how they fit in with science and modern medicine (which is why I'm pretty adamantly convinced that Qi MUST be linked to the nervous system in the body, and the organs, otherwise TCM wouldn't work).
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Theopholis on May 31, 2013, 01:05:57 PM
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In regards to their principles, we cannot argue they are the same, and in regards to things governing the nature of how all these things operate, the truth hood of the principles of Qiqong being shared cannot be verified as being intrinsic. For example, say I have a thermostat and my goal is to increase the temperature. What is causing that to rise is not Qi or any other variation of a subtle energy you can think of - it is heat where the heat is derived from manipulation of a particular configuration of states per my intention.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you now, but I don't see what your saying as being different than what Koujiryuu or I had said. Like you say, whether the heat comes from psionic interaction, qigong, magic, or because your house is on fire, the end result is the same. Regardless of which method you use, at some point the heat is caused by a increase in the speed the physical particles are moving at, which is caused by an increase in kinetic energy.

You would cause the increase differently depending on which paradigm you follow, but at a fundamental level, your just adding heat. Heat is heat, wheather you pronounce it "varmego" or "θερμότητα".

It sounds to me like you just don't believe that Qi is a real form of energy, or that it can have physical results. Which seems odd, as qigong is quite physical by nature!
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 01:14:09 PM
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I won't argue with you having more experience than me in Qiqong; however, I have way more experience than you do in magic, so I felt I should correct you. Per my example, sympathetic magic is based on the idea of objects interacting per the properties they share in common which, prima facie, says nothing of subtle energy let alone Qiqong; therefore, your statement was false in that the proposed principles of one form of magic are not the same, or even similar, to the proposed principles of Qiqong. I am not saying that sympathetic magic is true in its claim; rather, I am pointing out how it is different in concept. This doesn't require you to acknowledge that sympathetic magic works in the way it says it does, or at all even; however, it requires you to acknowledge that the concept is different thereby making it so that you can't make the claim that you did.

I never said the proposed principles were the same, because the principles are defined differently; Qigong provides a different model of energy and the world than Psi does, or Magick does. However, keep in mind when you do stuff with your Runic system, or when you have an Out-of-Body Experience, or when you sense something, or whatever else you do you are doing it through one thing and one thing alone, and that is willpower or intention. You basically call it using different experiential states to accomplish something. This is what I'm getting at. The underlying motivating factor that enables these things is the Soul (I know, I know, you hate this idea) and the willpower or expectation of it. This translates well between all systems.

Also, I had a thought. You gave an example of why TCM theory is potentially false and not linked to subtle energy because of underlying biological states and causes- which is essentially saying the model of Qi as a subtle energy is invalid, though it probably doesn't say anything about bioelectricity or the nervous system being an invalid reason.

Similarly, I don't have out of body experiences. I've never had one. I've tried. I could sit here and postulate that your OBEs you claim to experience are merely the product of psychosis or mental illness, with the root cause being a chemical imbalance in your brain that leads to vivid hallucinations. Many, many people on Veritas would probably agree with this assessment, and I almost know for a fact based upon years of therapy that modern psychiatry would agree with this evaluation. However, this evaluation has one serious flaw in it: when you have an OBE, you can obtain valid information you can verify later as being accurate. Thus, it is less a hallucination, and more an objective way of obtaining information about the world. Mind you, I'm taking this at face value, and I honestly believe in the things you've told me about your experiences. Can I prove them? No. But until you demonstrate otherwise I will continue to believe, because I have faith in people and take them at face value.

In the same vein, the theory of Qigong and TCM postulates that energy (Qi) flows through pathways in the body called meridians. These meridians are linked to the organs via pressure points on the human body. TCM goes into great detail about how, where and why this Qi flows and at what times of the day and what lunar phase it is active in certain parts of the body. Now, in the same manner we can throw this all out and look at it as being solely a biological function of the body, except for the fact that manipulating these pressure points works to cure illness, prevent illness and so forth. This has been demonstrated. Sure, it may be affecting the nervous system more than anything, but then if we view Qi in the body as being bioelectricity, we have a good explanation for why things like acupuncture work, with the fewest possible assumptions or alternative explanations. So, there is a similarity between your OBE experiences and the Qigong model, in that one could postulate that they are both false or products of biological, medical causes, except for the fact that they have been objectively demonstrated to actually work in practice for their specific purposes.

I hope this makes sense.

Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Theopholis on May 31, 2013, 01:34:05 PM
1 = one, 'e-kahi, an, un, een, εἴς, אַחַת, واحِد, חַד

No, 1 =/= 2. We all know that. But it can be expressed many, many ways. A concept can have many expressions.


Edit:
Getting so off topic...
Oh that Radki, what sillyness.

Edit 2:
Aw, you edited out the part of your post I was talking about! Now I just look silly. C'mon Rayn.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 01:43:13 PM
Quote from: Rayn
Yes. Acupuncture can work for purely biological reasons; however, it would have nothing to do with anything metaphysical. I can kill the infection off of a plant, at distance, with my intention which has no nervous system where there is no physical way possible anything is physically coming off of me and interacting with it. You cannot do this with whatever is the reason why acupuncture works. I only decided to step into this thread because of your inaccurate statement concerning magic.  

I'll keep this short since the thread is off topic already.

The problem with this, though, is that the same model used for TCM which does work is also used partly for Qigong (Meridians, Dantian), which also works as a metaphysical practice and a model of the energy in the human body.

If TCM didn't work but Qigong worked, then TCM theory would be false and Qigong theory would be true.

If Qigong didn't work but TCM worked then Qigong theory would be false and TCM theory would be true.

However, the fact is (believe it or not) TCM theory and Qigong both work, and have both been shown to work through rigorous scientific tests. Therefore the theory of each is true. Further, since acupuncture and TCM works on the human nervous system, and Qigong shares the same metaphysical theory with it, then it would be appropriate and would logically follow that Qigong must affect the nervous system to some extent too (This is only proven further by Qigong practices which electrically charge the fluid in the spinal cord (Xi Shui Jing, Kundalini) as well as practices which make the body harder and more resistant to pain (Iron Shirt).

TCM is different from Qigong, yes (they use a different set of meridians) but the underlying theory concerning Qi is mostly the same. What does this say?

This makes sense, because the basis of both TCM and Qigong came supposedly from the same legendary figure, Huang Di (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Emperor), the Yellow Emperor. His "Huang Di Neijing" (Yellow Emperor's Internal Classic) not only laid the base for TCM and acupuncture but also Qigong and even herbalism.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 02:04:07 PM
I partially agree with this, and I choose modern science first too, but I've seen enough evidence through Qigong and TCM to understand and appreciate what Qi stagnation, blockages, Qigong Disease and so forth really are.

Again, it doesn't always have to be fully one or the other. It doesn't have to be black and white. In some cases (most cases) it could totally be purely biological, I understand that. However, in others, it could be both. Any TCM doctor or acupuncturist would probably tell you this. Oftentimes, the underlying biological cause also manifests metaphysically and this causes Qi blockages. Sometimes, even after the problem is cured through modern medicine, these Qi blockages continue and cause the problem to come back (this explains things like arthritis and joint pain, which TCM has been proven VERY effective in treating).

So, again, I agree: it is always best to look for a rational, modern explanation based in science first. But if we disregard things like TCM completely we are missing a part of the whole.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 08:10:23 PM
Yeah I'm not going to continue this with you.

Magick is actually something I have practiced and researched since about 2004. I've read a ton of stuff on Magick, and practiced things like the Middle Pillar Rite and LBRP.

Even today, I was doing simple sigil Magick. I am also a TDS Probationer Alumni.

I may not be as qualified as other people here who devote themselves solely to Magick, and I may know Qigong and Yoga best, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about Magick.

You simply don't know what you're talking about and you are in no position to make assumptions about what I do and don't do.

I give up.

"You're right, Rayn"
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 01, 2013, 12:13:54 PM
Again, you're lecturing someone who knows this already, and you're also completing ignoring the point that I was making (that power in metaphysics comes from the will, which in Magick is expressed through symbolism).

What you described above perfectly illustrates the point I was trying to make.

For example, this paragraph:

Quote
This is where people screw up. They think it is due to constructing something in a proper way, doing a ritual in a proper way, saying a particular chant in a proper way, so on and so forth. Magic is linked to the meaning, the experience, and the why which, in turn, is linked to recorded instructions that constitutes what to do. From my observations, you tend to focus on movements and ritualized things. A spell addresses, implicitly, why you are doing it, what desires you might have, what it is that you don't have that you want, your implicit feelings about it, and all of this factors into the overall meaning it has where this flows from inside out through magical actions. The fact that you are so myopic when it comes to proper forms and traditions makes it so that you miss the point, entirely, which would mean that magical operations carried out in such a manner would lack power which is similar to how someone who practices radikal ki misses the point entirely where their actions are equally inert and useless. This is an important distinction between the two. In one, the power from magic comes from a psychic level of meaning, which can be expressed in the form of symbols which represent relationships hence the purpose of seals, which makes it so that a person can perform a magical operation outside of forms standard to it whereas in the other, yours, things like posture, proper breathing, etc. are important. The fact that you are trying to stress the later principles as just as important as the former(there being a wrong way and a right way to practice magic in forms of traditions where wrong ways lead to delusions - see below quote) shows that you miss the point entirely - the power of the magical operation is linked to the individual experience, meaning, and motivations of the person more so than the physical actions that constitute such an action like the rituals or the chanting or the circles or the seals or the sigils or the Pentagrams versus your practices which are a lot more physical, thus, focusing on instructions of ways one can perform a magical operation properly without grasping what I said above would make it so that you miss the boat entirely.

Says pretty much exactly that. "the power of the magical operation is linked to the individual experience, meaning, and motivations of the person more so than the physical actions that constitute such an action like the rituals or the chanting or the circles or the seals or the sigils". This power is the underlying metaphysical will or intention to do something.

Again, stop making assumptions about what I do or don't do- "From my observations, you tend to focus on movements and ritualized things." I don't practice ritual Magick outside of Sigil magick and even then it's done devoid of ritual.

You don't know what you're talking about and this has just led you to essentially argue my point for me.

This thread has been so massively derailed by you. Any more replies like this that are not only off topic but also essentially inflammatory will be ignored, and at worst, deleted.

EDIT: Let's get back to the original topic. Any further posts that are off topic will be considered rule breaking and will lead to punishment.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on June 01, 2013, 11:36:35 PM
First off, for Qigong, etc. following the same principles, I can understand that.  The methods that I learned never worked well for moving ki into the air, and until I invented a method for myself that worked, the only thing that would ever work would be something akin to a 57 layered psi construct to hold Ki in a ball, strong enough for 7 different people to be able to feel by putting their hands through, with a maximum range I could move it, of about 15 feet distance away from me before it would dissipate.

For the weird crap that happened to my student/friend?  I'll try to get pictures, but it's been 7 years, and he moved out of his house twice since then.  I just wanted your opinion on what on earth happened to the guy, because Radki, Traditional Chi, and psionics doesn't seem to explain it at all, nor has anyone else I've asked.

As for my hamster killing student, he was a natural psi vamp.  Still, you could be right.  But he was "gifted" enough that he could make his sister go from normal to exhausted and sleepy in 2 minutes, in the car, with me and him talking the entire time, after she pissed him off pretty bad.

Finally, as for the "Right" and "Wrong" way to practice with your Qi, as you call it... sure, I can believe that for everyone there's a different route in practicing it properly.  My methods aren't yours, after all, and will never be yours.  But what works for one person won't work for another, as we all saw at the beginning of The New Mystics, and MysteryShadow's homepage.  But don't expect me to jump on your Qigong bandwagon when what works for me has worked superior to the other methods I read up on for over 10 years.

I've gone from "Visualization, and long periods of meditation" to "closing my eyes, and thinking about it, to feel it moving through my body as it naturally moves", through years of hard work and training with it, learning how to work with it and let it work with me and be more in tune with me better.  I'm not trying for tactile feedback, the tactile feedback is a side effect of clearing my mind and simply thinking about it, and how it's moving through my body, and my body becoming completely in tune with it as a result, as it flows through my meridians, and my chakras.

As for Qigong disease, I'll keep your point in mind.  But you shouldn't assume that all people that practice Radki has it, either.  One of my former acquaintances sounds like they had a case of it, but she barely practiced as it was, focusing mainly only on the astral plane instead of bettering herself here on the physical.  She eventually insisted she were going to be some sort of Goddess-Messiah or some crap like that, and it took her boyfriend dumping her to snap her slowly back into reality.

Seriously? The best of Radki, which wasn't that good, came from Dynamic Tension exercises and a Ki Ball exercise within The Ki Process (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ki-Process-Secrets-Cultivating/dp/0877288798/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370154519&sr=8-1&keywords=the+ki+process) and the short blurb on the Kihap ("Kiai" in Japanese) from State of the Art Taekwondo (http://www.amazon.com/Taekwondo-Master-Sung-Chul-Whang/dp/0767902149/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370154550&sr=1-1&keywords=state+of+the+art+taekwondo) with a bunch of Dragon Ball Z fanboyism wrapped around it. In fact, the use of the word "Radical" in The Ki Process is where the word "Radical" came from in the creation of the term "Radki." The way "radical" and "ki" were smashed together into one word was based off the word "Reiki" and shows how little I knew about Japanese I knew at the time. It was to create some legitimacy, but that obviously didn't really work.

今、私は日本語話します。でも…

If you strip the anime stuff from it, you've got some neat stuff like the Sanchin Kata (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS_Ayjecfd8) from Karate and legitimate use of Kiai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiai) to generate power in martial arts. Add some Chinese candle training exercises (http://ymaa.com/articles/martial-arts/candle-training) to it and you've got some stuff to supplement good martial technique and a proper fitness program that blows Radki away.

Just to be fair, though, what martial benefits have come from your Radki training that couldn't be much more easily gotten from the sources I mentioned?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: RanmaBushiko on June 02, 2013, 02:01:31 AM
Seriously? The best of Radki, which wasn't that good, came from Dynamic Tension exercises and a Ki Ball exercise within The Ki Process (http://www.amazon.com/The-Ki-Process-Secrets-Cultivating/dp/0877288798/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370154519&sr=8-1&keywords=the+ki+process) and the short blurb on the Kihap ("Kiai" in Japanese) from State of the Art Taekwondo (http://www.amazon.com/Taekwondo-Master-Sung-Chul-Whang/dp/0767902149/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1370154550&sr=1-1&keywords=state+of+the+art+taekwondo) with a bunch of Dragon Ball Z fanboyism wrapped around it. In fact, the use of the word "Radical" in The Ki Process is where the word "Radical" came from in the creation of the term "Radki." The way "radical" and "ki" were smashed together into one word was based off the word "Reiki" and shows how little I knew about Japanese I knew at the time. It was to create some legitimacy, but that obviously didn't really work.

今、私は日本語話します。でも…

If you strip the anime stuff from it, you've got some neat stuff like the Sanchin Kata (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS_Ayjecfd8) from Karate and legitimate use of Kiai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiai) to generate power in martial arts. Add some Chinese candle training exercises (http://ymaa.com/articles/martial-arts/candle-training) to it and you've got some stuff to supplement good martial technique and a proper fitness program that blows Radki away.

Just to be fair, though, what martial benefits have come from your Radki training that couldn't be much more easily gotten from the sources I mentioned?

What I did, was I ignored the anime stuff completely when I studied it, and treated any anime stuff I read, as merely theory that was possible, rather than fact.  ...Not that anyone here asked me that.  When I did try to replicate techniques, as theory, I looked, instead of at the methods from the anime or what have you, but at the physics, and tried to make something that would react in a similar way.  The one crowning technique I developed back when I first started out, was pretty much a Ki ball, held together by 47 layers of construct, that absorbed the Ki I pushed into it for momentum, which a few students I taught in real life rather than online, managed to feel the energy if they'd practiced Ki ball techniques not long before hand so their hands were still sensitive to it.  Most I ever got was about 17, 18 feet before it dissipated using that technique, but nothing more than "Dude, what did I walk through just now?  Was that Ki?" from said students.

A lot of "Radki" techniques I developed, I initially gave out thinking they were "power boosts" not realizing they were simply making my awareness jump up, and circulating power faster through my body, at that time, as well.  They've got much different functions than I originally percieved them as having, and when you focus on using them to try and gain power fast, alone, they usually have detrimental effects.  Such as anger issues, and the like.

As for martial benefits?  How about figuring out how to astral project inwards, to explore your own meridians and to fix blockages from the inside rather than needing acupuncture to help you?  Or to explore your mind's sense of self, the mindscape, and learn more about what your Ki is naturally in tune with, for latent talents?

Or the fact that my father still usually can outdo me in wrestling, but when I channeled Ki full bore through my body, my reaction time shot up to be able to hold him in a headlock no matter what he did?  3 attempts to get out of it resulted in him going back into the headlock instantly, while I switched arms each time.

Also, I've owned that book for years.  Good book, bit short, but I looked to it partially for advice in keeping my meridians clear, and what the heck I was seeing when I first tried to project into them to see if it was even possible.

On a different note... interesting how the candle technique works.  I always got slight bits of wind, but thought I was doing something wrong, because Mysteryshadow's article said it was for making hot or cold Ki, for the beginnings of pyrokinesis or cryokinesis.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: HADOUKEN on June 02, 2013, 02:37:33 AM
You're making the candle training more complicated than it really is. Don't worry about all the "-kinesis" stuff. In fact, that's what I'm saying about all of it: stop over-complicating it.

People who eat well, get plenty of regular sleep, and get regular healthy exercise have healthy Qi already. No need for the, "Astral projecting inward to fix blockages" and all that. Just treat your body and mind the right way to begin with and you won't have to do all that crazy stuff in the first place.

Really, just simplify it down even further. The sources I gave you just a bit ago? Use them. They're really all you need for what Radki was supposed to do in the first place and they're a lot simpler in execution. It's the difference between, "Do five crazy extra things trying to keep your mind clear and doing this breath," and, "Use this breath, the rest happens automatically." Feeling as strong as a Shonen manga protagonist is one of those things that comes automatically, too, when you just strip it down to the essentials and do it right the first time.

I felt a lot more like something out of Dragonball Z using good Kiai during full-contact sparring than I ever did standing in my back yard trying to do a Kamehameha at the air.

It's simply a matter of practicality. Go back and read Dragonball from after Piccolo Daimaou gets killed all the way through just before the Cell Game. Becoming more efficient and mastering the fundamentals are when the biggest breakthroughs happen and the most decisive wins take place.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Mind_Bender on June 02, 2013, 03:54:19 PM
I never did Radki and only found out about it on the forum. Honestly, I have formulated certain energy work around the anime idea, but one must look at what preceded anime- qigong, tantric yoga, martial arts, myths and legends, religious stories, etc. All this anime stuff is based upon ancient practices, albeit with creative intellect and intuition (which is what practical methods of energy work, martial arts, fitness or magic should incorporate to be most effective for the individual).

I am a big fan of Dragon Ball Z and have found correlations between the show and energetic practices. I think if we look at the ancient teachings, the possibilities of them in the modern world and how to enhance them with traditional and personal methods (this is what psi represents to me) then seeing their potential from a fictitious point of view (or what Alan Moore calls the Immateria- or plane of imagination where all things are possible and can be real, but it depends on the will of the mage or psion) we can devise our own plan of action, or our own theories and techniques for pragmatic results.

For instance, tying in the seven Dragon Balls as the Seven Chakras, Shen-Ron (the wish fulfilling dragon) as the Kundalini. Super Saiyan transformation as the Golden Body (Rainbow Body, Diamond Body, etc), flying as light air kung fu (yes, it is real. There is actually a good post with a video link on Veritas somewhere). There are many, many anime/comic book powers that are real, but not to the extent that we may want them to be. I have never seen or experienced any telekinetic ability that I can prove being so, but I have had extra sensory perceptions via mind linking, reading, future seeing, spirit encounters and magical projection and achievement. I use these indicators as ways to understand that the human brain and body (along with the mind, or higher/subconscious functioning of our innate selves) have capabilities beyond our understanding.

Sometimes fiction gives us that extra boost to want to develop and heighten our perceptions, magical, energetic and martial skills. Myths and folklore about the Greek Titans, Gods and Heroes, to martial arts myths about Karate and Kung Fu masters have all given me aspiration and hope on this long journey of discovering my self and human potential. Myths and religious stories are nothing but ancient forms of fiction and we read these stories and (some of us) view them as real- the supernatural abilities, the divine connection, etc, so why is it so bad to come up with a new paradigm that uses modern stories fused with ancient and modern techniques of the Force, Super Saiyans, Namekian fusion and healing, contracts to have specific psi abilities, etc, as a means of physical, emotional, spiritual, energetic and magical well being and ability discovery?

From what I have experienced with my experiments into magic, psi and energy work, as long as your intention is strong enough and you know your body and mental states well enough that you can heal any blockages/deviations or know the sensations and processes before they get too bad so you can reverse them, any model of energy, magic or fitness you choose can be lasting and beneficial to your life and loved ones. Like mentioned earlier, you need a good balance of traditional understanding and practice (this is where master teachers [Guru, Sifu, Sensei, Mage, etc] are priceless) mixed with a good balance of intellect (Scientific Method) and intuition for the best results on the path- whether it is for spiritual or ability gain. I personally use it for both.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 02, 2013, 04:53:35 PM
I agree with you Mind_Bender, there's a lot of symbolism in anime and manga.

It's fine to use these things as inspiration.

It is not fine to take them literally and try to emulate the powers and abilities displayed in the show using almost wholly visualization and imagination. All this produces is delusion. It ignores traditional practices and methods of developing Qi. It is also not fine to lie about the results you get from such practices (i.e. claiming to be a Super Saiyan or claiming to make visible ki balls, or do visible energy beams that explode and damage buildings, or claim to fly. I have seen all these claims and I know they're all lies.)

Since you missed it and haven't seen what the actual Radki practices are, take a thorough look at this webpage (http://www.angelfire.com/ult/debiruman/tart1.htm). This is one of the more notorious "ki manuals". Note the almost complete lack of Qigong fundamentals (Yi, posture, breathwork, form) and the complete reliance on visualization. Also note the lack of real descriptiveness of the techniques. How anyone could learn proper energy work from this, especially Qigong, is beyond me.

The majority of the sites still around now that have Radki elements (psiwarriors.com, a few Avatar bending sites) all have this one fatal flaw: it's all visualization, tactile feedback, imagination and induced delusion. It has more in common with bad Psi practice than anything.

Also, Kendamu's advice is good.

"Use this breath, the rest happens automatically."

Him and I have a difference of opinion on what Qi really is. He sees it as more of a purely scientific force. I see it as a mystical force within the domain of Daoist Yoga and alchemy. However, he really hit the nail on the head when it comes to martial Qigong. Just breath correctly, attack, kiai and the rest happens automatically if you're in a blank state of mind. The Qi will manifest naturally because of your intent. You don't need to forcefully guide the Qi out of the arms or legs when attacking because this happens on it's own when you have the right mindset. This holds true for most spiritual Qigong and most health oriented Qigong forms (Baduanjin, Taijiquan) too. You never need to focus the Qi in one part of the body, the goal is to blank out and "go with the flow", do the exercise, and let the Qi move on it's own.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Searching on June 02, 2013, 04:55:49 PM
It is not fine to take them literally and try to emulate the powers and abilities displayed in the show using almost wholly visualization and imagination. All this produces is delusion. It ignores traditional practices and methods of developing Qi. It is also not fine to lie about the results you get from such practices (i.e. claiming to be a Super Saiyan or claiming to make visible ki balls, or do visible energy beams that explode and damage buildings, or claim to fly. I have seen all these claims and I know they're all lies.)

Well, to play the devil's advocate (which you all know I love to do :P) for all anyone on this board knows, people ARE producing visible ki balls and making visible energy beams that cause damage to buildings... or maybe even flying...

How do you know that all of those claims are lies?
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Shinichi on June 02, 2013, 05:02:07 PM
claiming to make visible ki balls


You know, in the first place, it never said anywhere in dragon ball that ki was visible. I don't even remember anywhere that clairvoyance was implied, especially since Baba was the only official psychic that I remember. The author only made ki visible to the readers because it makes it more fun to read the manga, and then later to watch the anime. In short, it was the readers/watchers who had clairvoyance, not the characters themselves.  :P



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 02, 2013, 05:02:43 PM
Because back then it was coming from 14-16 year old boys with less than a year of practice in meditation, martial arts and spirituality, who spent more time posting on forums than actually practicing, made things up as they went along, had overactive imagination, and wanted to lie to impress their peers.

I even saw a few videos back in the day where kids were claiming to make "visible ki balls" in front of a camera. Without fail, I saw no such thing, even though they claimed to be doing it.

It really doesn't take a genius to realize why all this stuff is lies.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Searching on June 02, 2013, 05:45:00 PM
Because back then it was coming from 14-16 year old boys with less than a year of practice in meditation, martial arts and spirituality, who spent more time posting on forums than actually practicing, made things up as they went along, had overactive imagination, and wanted to lie to impress their peers.

I even saw a few videos back in the day where kids were claiming to make "visible ki balls" in front of a camera. Without fail, I saw no such thing, even though they claimed to be doing it.

It really doesn't take a genius to realize why all this stuff is lies.

What I find funny is that this is the attitude that many skeptics take to the overall content of this forum (psi, chi, magic, etc).

For all anybody knows, we're all a bunch of 14-16 year old boys posting online (I'm sure most of us were at some point...)

There are a few videos out there reportedly demonstrating psi in action, but if you discount the ones that have been discovered/admitted as being fakes, there's really no way to tell if there is any psi happening or if it's just your own imagination/wishful thinking/stage trickery.

I've also heard your final sentiment expressed many a time towards psi/chi/magic as well.

Maybe we're still 14-16 year old boys that just never grew up, and keep hoping to find out we have special powers.

Just a thought.
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 02, 2013, 06:11:00 PM
Quote
What I find funny is that this is the attitude that many skeptics take to the overall content of this forum (psi, chi, magic, etc).

For all anybody knows, we're all a bunch of 14-16 year old boys posting online (I'm sure most of us were at some point...)

There are a few videos out there reportedly demonstrating psi in action, but if you discount the ones that have been discovered/admitted as being fakes, there's really no way to tell if there is any psi happening or if it's just your own imagination/wishful thinking/stage trickery.

I've also heard your final sentiment expressed many a time towards psi/chi/magic as well.

Maybe we're still 14-16 year old boys that just never grew up, and keep hoping to find out we have special powers.

Just a thought.

There's a lot of wisdom in this post, and again, this is why I don't believe the majority of claims people make online that are very outlandish.

Ultimately, though, I've experienced and seen enough real, objective effects of Qigong, Psi and Magick through my own workings to have come to the conclusion that they are more than psychosomatic.

Also, this still says nothing about the wisdom, self mastery, and personal development you can attain through metaphysics, which to me is more important than any power.

So for me, it really has nothing to do with power and everything to do with inner peace. I know I've said this before, but I will never stop saying it, because it's really true for me.

Kouji
Title: Re: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained
Post by: jimdare on August 27, 2013, 11:03:18 PM
I think this video sums everything up quite nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRrexYTFWcY&feature=share&list=UUxqecuwrjVeZe6NQLLVG_kg