The Veritas Society

Discussion Areas => Magick => Topic started by: Baxt on August 06, 2018, 10:21:06 AM

Title: Thought Control
Post by: Baxt on August 06, 2018, 10:21:06 AM
I'm currently on step one of the IIH working on thought control. Not far into attempting to void my mind of all thoughts, my subconscious kicks in and starts spitting out totally random and bizarre thoughts/images. This is the same thing that happens to me when I'm going to sleep...it's like a waking dream state, I assume. So, at any rate, my mind isn't technically "void", but then again, they aren't technically thoughts, either.

Although, I really don't see how I could, am I somehow supposed to keep those little dream tidbits (if that is, in fact, what they are...) from happening or is this just part of the process? Also, if someone could enlighten me as to what exactly is going on, that would be great. I wonder if it may be something I could utilize for some kind of visionary work, maybe?  :P
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: الظلام on August 06, 2018, 12:11:49 PM
It's been a long time since I've worked through the thought control exercises, but I still remember those moments when the imagination would act up and start spitting things out.
However, it only really happened when I was getting tired, or losing awareness.

I think it is called hypnagogic imagery, and it usually occurs when one is slipping from active consciousness to a sleep state.

However, as you might imagine, the purpose of the thought control exercises isn't to fade from awareness or induce any sort of trance, so, no, this is not something to be encouraged.

Quite simply, you are slipping away from active consciousness, which isn't what we want.
Though the thought control exercises seem "passive", you shouldn't be so passive that you are surrendering your will and awareness to to sleep or a trance state.
You should be in full control of your awareness and consciousness during these exercises.

The thought control exercises are meant to separate you from your mind and mental senses, to attain a state of mental autonomy and objectivity - not to fall asleep or daydream  :wink:
Eventually this state of mental sovereignty is meant to become your normal state of mind. All your emotions, thoughts, etc. will be subject to you, rather than you being dominated by them.

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my mind isn't technically "void", but then again, they aren't technically thoughts, either

 I understand the logic here, however, there is an important issue here which isn't exactly made clear by Bardon.
The "thought" control exercises aren't just meant to separate you from your literal thoughts, but rather your mind and its faculties as a whole. This includes the imagination or mental senses, as well as emotions to an extent.
Any products of the imagination are to be treated just like "thoughts", whether they are images, sounds, etc.

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Although, I really don't see how I could, am I somehow supposed to keep those little dream tidbits (if that is, in fact, what they are...) from happening or is this just part of the process

As I've mentioned, this is about you fading from consciousness and getting far too passive.
Your intention here is to clear your mind of distractions and everything but your awareness, not necessarily to "relax" or fall into trance. If you feel yourself slipping from awareness and falling into a dream state, you must fight it and keep yourself fully awake and in charge.

Though the fact that this is happening shows that you are good at separating yourself from the chaos of your conscious mind, you are instead allowing yourself to get seduced by the subconscious/unconsciousness, which we don't want either.  :wink:

I wonder though, the exercise which is being talked about here is the exercise from "thought mastery", often referred to as void meditation. Have you completed the exercises which come before it("thought control", and "thought discipline")?
The exercises in that section("magical schooling of the spirit") are meant to be done in steps - first thought control, then thought discipline, then thought mastery(the void meditation talked about in this thread).
I'm just making sure you are going through the IIH, correctly, that's all :biggrin:
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: Akenu on August 07, 2018, 01:52:57 AM
I'm currently on step one of the IIH working on thought control. Not far into attempting to void my mind of all thoughts, my subconscious kicks in and starts spitting out totally random and bizarre thoughts/images. This is the same thing that happens to me when I'm going to sleep...it's like a waking dream state, I assume. So, at any rate, my mind isn't technically "void", but then again, they aren't technically thoughts, either.

Although, I really don't see how I could, am I somehow supposed to keep those little dream tidbits (if that is, in fact, what they are...) from happening or is this just part of the process? Also, if someone could enlighten me as to what exactly is going on, that would be great. I wonder if it may be something I could utilize for some kind of visionary work, maybe?  :p
Check this: http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,23405.0.html
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: Baxt on August 07, 2018, 06:58:01 AM
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http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,23405.0.html
Thank you, I appreciate that.

الظلام: I'm getting to your post. I just have more to say and I'm waiting until I have the time to do it. Hang in there.  :wink:
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: Baxt on August 07, 2018, 09:59:02 AM
Ok....الظلام:

First off, when I said thought control I was generalizing all of the initial exercises. Sorry if that was confusing, I should have been more specific.

Yes, I see what you are saying about not being so passive...that makes sense. I understand now.

To answer your question, honestly, I have maybe been jumping around a bit. I'm not Necessarily skipping anything, just trying to do a couple at a time, I guess...? The first exercise, observing my thoughts, I did do correctly in its entirety. That one was pretty easy for me. I think what happened is that it seemed like a natural progression to then try to vacate my mind from there and then went back to focusing on a single idea, which Im still working on currently. So, really, I just switched things around. Yes, I know, I shouldn't have done that. Actually, just now while typing this, I, once again, completely forgot about the second exercise, being conscious in my every day activities. So, I take that back, I actually did skip one, but not intentionally. I literally just keep forgoting about it for some reason. Which, actually, leads me to another issue Im having:

When I do happen to remember that it is part of what I should be doing, I work on staying focused on the task at hand, but I'm still concerned that I'm not doing something right. I'm a full-time, stay at home mommy to two small children, so that is my job. Also, when I say stay at home, I mean I literally don't leave my house unless I absolutely have to (i.e. Dr's appointments, ect.). I can't stand being around people, so I avoid it at all costs. My boyfriend does everything that needs to be done outside of the house and I stay inside. Yes, I'm aware that this is not exactly healthy, but its the way I've been for as long as I remember. Sorry about that tangent, but I'm sure that information will be relevant in the future. ANYWAY..., so obviously, my focus is on being a parent 24/7, but the very nature of doing so is constantly multitasking. So, I suppose what Im trying to say is that Im not sure exactly how to be completely in the moment at all times given my current situation. Make sense? And if I doesn't, point made...because I have just attempted to make sense while trying to do this over the last 4 hours constantly being interupted by my 3 year old and somewhat less often by my 6 month old wanting my boob back lol. Enough said.:headwall:

I had a few more things to address, but I'll just try again later. I'm sure you can only imagine some of the other issues I might be having doing the IIH from this rant of a post.  :P
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: Baxt on August 07, 2018, 10:12:28 AM
Just to clarify, my 3 year old is interupting me with making me lunch out of her toys and various other things. No, Im not still nursing my 3 year old lol. I meant to fix that before I posted and then got distracted again.  :wink:
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: الظلام on August 07, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
There is no need to rush, I can always wait.
I'm sorry things are so hectic for you, must make it difficult to practice :biggrin:

I understand wanting to "jump around the playground" after completing the first exercise. I did the same thing.
In Step I, you can get away with it without seriously hindering yourself as long as you continue to practice the exercise you should be on(though I do discourage this jumping around), however you must make sure that before you -seriously- move on to the next exercise, that you meet Bardon's requirements.
You said you can perform the first exercise well - can you do it without any digressions from focus for 10 minutes? That is the standard you must meet before moving on to thought discipline.

And about "thought discipline" to which there are two parts:

The actual exercise part of it is very important for practical magic, it is vital you complete it. To be honest, it is more important than the void meditation of thought mastery.

Now about the other part of it:

The main theme here, is Conscientiousness.
In fact, exercises of awareness and conscientiousness will be something you will constantly run into, even more so in the future steps.
It is entirely expected of you to forget - that's kinda the point :wink:
And it is what Bardon is trying to help get you out of.
Humans are, more often than not, like mindless little ants running about their lives in a sort of "autopilot mode".
Caught up in the affairs of life, they lose themselves unwittingly. They are dominated by their emotions and thoughts, dominated by their habits and routine, without ever really giving things a second thought, or really stopping to make sure they are living by their own conscience and focused will.

That is what this exercise is about. Making sure you are in the driver's seat, making sure you are living your life conscientiously. Making sure you do not forget your own self.
So yes, you will forget at first. But you must keep remembering, until you reach a point where you are always in conscious control, where all of your actions are done with your conscience behind it and with clear intention. It may be exhausting at first, but eventually it will become your normal state, and then you will have reached a true form of individuality, and attain a form of "free will" which others really can't even comprehend, for they do not even know what they're missing.

There's a little secret here, that Bardon keeps hidden. It's part of why the thought control exercises are important, and why the future steps will keep throwing the same theme in your face.
It's all meant to lead you to connect with the Akashic principle within your spirit. Have you gone through the Theory section of the IIH?
If you have, then you know the human spirit is composed of not just the four elements, but the Akashic principle as well. The Akasha is essentially the force of "God", or the force of what could be called the universal consciousness, but it is also the force of your own true conscience, and the development and realization of the Akashic principle within you is one of the primary goals of the IIH.

The thought control exercises are meant to give you the power of self control, especially over your spirit and mind, because thoughts, emotions, habits, essentially everything we do, are all products of the elemental forces within our spirit, and if you are not in control and are being dominated by these things, then it will be difficult for the Akashic principle to become active within you. The Akasha is a subtle force, and you need to "clear the stage" so it can do its thing  :biggrin:

But, if that is too much info or I have confused you, disregard it, and simply heed what I said before mentioning the Akasha. All that matters is you keep practicing and going through the IIH, - what I mentioned will come on its own.

So, keep at those exercises  :wink:
Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: Baxt on August 09, 2018, 07:50:50 AM
No need to be sorry, I wouldn't have it any other way...I love my babies.:) But, yes, it does make practicing tricky. I think that is really the point for me, though. Patience and discipline are probably the areas I need the most work in. So, it is for a reason. This work is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing at this time in my life, so anything that makes it harder is just a lesson to be learned (although, I may not always like it :wink:).

As far as being able to do the first exercise without losing focus- I think so, but I will go back and polish it up if I need to. I have every intention of doing this the way it's meant to be done.
And no, I'm not at all confused about why it is so important. Even though I haven't done any kind of actual "training" up until now, I've been studying the occult for most of my life. So, I have a pretty good understanding of at least the basic concepts in most areas of it. Not only important concerning the Akasha, but I have first hand experience in how things can go very wrong if you're not aware of your true intention when practicing.

That being said, I have always had issues in any area concerning meditation or any kind of thought control. I have a very busy brain and Im a chronic worrier. Considering one of my past incarnations, it seems like it should be the easiest thing in the world for me, but it's, frankly, nothing less than a pain in the ass lol. Due time I figure it out, I suppose.  :wink:

Thank you so much. I really do appreciate all your help and insight. :)

Title: Re: Though Control
Post by: Baxt on August 09, 2018, 05:17:06 PM
Wow....I just noticed that I left out the last "T" in "thought" in the title of this post lol!
Great first impression lol  :headwall:
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: الظلام on August 10, 2018, 12:43:19 AM
Honestly, I didn't even notice the spelling till you mentioned it  :biggrin:

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This work is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing at this time in my life, so anything that makes it harder is just a lesson to be learned (although, I may not always like it :wink:).

My my, look at you,  all wise and virtuous. You are far more noble than I ever was when I began the IIH :wink:

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I have a very busy brain and Im a chronic worrier

I don't remember what step the soul mirrors are in, but this right here will definitely be something to put in them :biggrin:

Anyways, your welcome for the help.  :P
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Baxt on August 11, 2018, 01:51:19 AM
Ok, I'm not quoting 'cause I can't figure out how to do it, btw. I see where the quote is in the text options, but I can't seem to copy and paste, if that's what I should be doing. I don't know if it has something to do with being on my phone or what. Anyway, you know what I'm referring to when I answer.  :P

Yeah, oh well...I think at this point anybody who's been reading this knows I can spell.  :)

It's funny, once in a while my "Higher Self" likes to chime in when I'm writing...ha, ha. Knowing and doing are two completely different things, though. I'm a real stickler when it comes to taking my own medicine. :biggrin:

Actually, I've already started the list for my black mirror. I'm at about 70, but I'm running out of adjectives....I honestly can't believe I got to that many.

Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: الظلام on August 11, 2018, 04:12:06 AM
I'm on my phone, and the quote button is a little box with a text bubble icon, above the emoji bar, but right under the font size drop down menu.
It's on the second row of buttons, towards the end of it. Again, its a square button with a text bubble icon.
See it?

Well its good that you're even aware of your higher self at all. That will make it much easier to merge with.
Honestly I hadn't the slightest concern for the "higher self" or any of what I thought was right hand path rubbish before(despite practicing the IIH), yet somehow, quite literally on accident you could say or without my knowledge, I ended up achieving self realization. Since I had no prior interest in these things, I had no knowledge of what had happened, and a magician ended up having to explain to me what had gone down. :biggrin:
I never imagined achieving such spiritual development before, indeed I actually thought I was blatantly working against those kinds of things. I was as left hand path and negative in character as was possible, yet it still worked out.  :wink:
Anyways with your awareness of your higher self, it shouldn't be too hard for you :P

Wow, what a list you have there. I'm lucky honestly, I never really did the soul mirrors, but of course as I've mentioned that didn't stop me from attaining equipoise and self realization.
If I did write them down though, my mirrors would be entirely black, so don't feel bad about your list :wink:
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Baxt on August 11, 2018, 08:33:39 PM
Yeah, that icon just gives you the quote code without the text. I figured it out, though...I hit the "Insert Quote" right above the post and doctored it up a bit. It quotes the whole post, but I just took out what I didn't need.  :P

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Well its good that you're even aware of your higher self at all. That will make it much easier to merge with.

The product of life-long searching, I guess. When I was 12 I read a book about reincarnation called "Journey of Souls" by Dr. Michael Newton. He does regression therepy and the entire book is his recorded case studies of taking people into their superconscious to recall their past lives and everything in between. They would recall the whole process of choosing  certain lives acording to their karmic lessons, with whom and why, ect...and pretty much everything else that occurs in the state between lives. Excellent book. Wow...tangent...sorry. :biggrin: Anyway, from then on, I was pretty much dead set on figuring it all out.:wink:

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Honestly I hadn't the slightest concern for the "higher self" or any of what I thought was right hand path rubbish before(despite practicing the IIH), yet somehow, quite literally on accident you could say or without my knowledge, I ended up achieving self realization. Since I had no prior interest in these things, I had no knowledge of what had happened, and a magician ended up having to explain to me what had gone down. :biggrin:

Ha...reading that reminded me of the little Kundalini adventure I had when I was younger...almost 20 years ago(my god, I'm getting old :eek:). It was totally spontaneous and I had to have someone intervine....bring my energy down and then explain to me what the hell happened. Although she was Wiccan and gave it a different definition, I realized years later the true nature of it. Yeah, I totally understand how some people end up in psych wards when it happens...yikes.:eek: Actually, I'm a little curious about what happened to you and if it had anything to do with the IIH.

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Wow, what a list you have there. I'm lucky honestly, I never really did the soul mirrors, but of course as I've mentioned that didn't stop me from attaining equipoise and self realization.
If I did write them down though, my mirrors would be entirely black, so don't feel bad about your list :wink:

Well, Bardon says that if you don't have at least 100 you haven't really gone deep enough into yourself. I'm stuck where I am and going back through I noticed I've repeated a few with different words. I'll work on it a little longer to see if I can come up with a few more. How did you get away with not doing your mirrors? :eek:


Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Baxt on August 11, 2018, 08:35:25 PM
Wow, this is starting to look more like a chat room than a thread. :HA!:
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Impervious on August 12, 2018, 12:28:16 AM
Well, Bardon says that if you don't have at least 100 you haven't really gone deep enough into yourself. I'm stuck where I am and going back through I noticed I've repeated a few with different words. I'll work on it a little longer to see if I can come up with a few more. How did you get away with not doing your mirrors? :eek:


My advice to you is to be more specific with each item than you think you need to be. Sometimes, it'll feel like you're being too specific, but it'll really only help when it comes time to classify your soul mirror by element, and when you begin working on transmuting your vices into virtues. It shouldn't be too hard to get 100-150 items with the correct level of specificity. Maybe even more.  :)

For example: Say you wrote one of your vices/negatives as "I have trouble sleeping." Not a bad start, but it doesn't really give you much to work with when it comes time to actually fix that problem. Maybe instead, go a step further. WHY do you have trouble sleeping? Maybe you don't keep a consistent sleep schedule, maybe you use too much caffeine, and maybe you're always too stressed out to sleep when it is time to try. Now you have three items that are much easier to tackle on an individual basis than the nebulous concept of "bad sleep" is as a whole. This way, you can also start seeing small improvements in your sleep as a whole, as you chip away at each item.
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: الظلام on August 12, 2018, 01:49:18 AM
Wow, this is starting to look more like a chat room than a thread. :HA!:

Yeah I've started to realize that :biggrin:
I don't want to be smitten by a moderator for getting off topic, so I've sent you a pm instead :P
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Impervious on August 12, 2018, 07:42:46 AM
Wow, this is starting to look more like a chat room than a thread. :HA!:

Yeah I've started to realize that :biggrin:
I don't want to be smitten by a moderator for getting off topic, so I've sent you a pm instead :P

Just so you both know, we tend to play pretty loose with the whole "on topic" thing here in general. Unless a thread gets wildly out of control or devolves into name calling or some such, it's usually all right. It's mostly up to the OP and the other posters to choose the direction of a thread any way. That's not to say that every topic-specific thread should devolve into just "so what are you up to" or "how was your day?" posts, but we care less about being strictly on topic than perhaps some other forums do. :P

Mods are mostly here to remove spam and make sure people follow the rules: http://vsociety.net/index.php?title=Veritas_rules

Beyond that, we're mostly just happy to see discussion as it doesn't tend to happen as much as it used to.

(But of course feel free to PM each other if that works better for you two.)
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: الظلام on August 12, 2018, 08:52:53 AM
Wow, this is starting to look more like a chat room than a thread. :HA!:

Yeah I've started to realize that :biggrin:
I don't want to be smitten by a moderator for getting off topic, so I've sent you a pm instead :P

Just so you both know, we tend to play pretty loose with the whole "on topic" thing here in general. Unless a thread gets wildly out of control or devolves into name calling or some such, it's usually all right. It's mostly up to the OP and the other posters to choose the direction of a thread any way. That's not to say that every topic-specific thread should devolve into just "so what are you up to" or "how was your day?" posts, but we care less about being strictly on topic than perhaps some other forums do. :P

Mods are mostly here to remove spam and make sure people follow the rules: http://vsociety.net/index.php?title=Veritas_rules

Beyond that, we're mostly just happy to see discussion as it doesn't tend to happen as much as it used to.

(But of course feel free to PM each other if that works better for you two.)

Thank you, I'll keep that in mind :biggrin:
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Baxt on August 12, 2018, 02:11:00 PM
Yeah, I figured it wasn't too much of an issue...I was more just making a jovial observation, anyway.:P

Not than anyone is overly concerned, but I am getting to other replies, eventually. :wink: My little one is teething again, so she's crazy cranky.:P
Title: Re: Thought Control
Post by: Baxt on August 15, 2018, 09:07:05 PM
For example: Say you wrote one of your vices/negatives as "I have trouble sleeping." Not a bad start, but it doesn't really give you much to work with when it comes time to actually fix that problem. Maybe instead, go a step further. WHY do you have trouble sleeping? Maybe you don't keep a consistent sleep schedule, maybe you use too much caffeine, and maybe you're always too stressed out to sleep when it is time to try. Now you have three items that are much easier to tackle on an individual basis than the nebulous concept of "bad sleep" is as a whole. This way, you can also start seeing small improvements in your sleep as a whole, as you chip away at each item.

 Actually, I started out with pretty specific terms to begin with. I'm thinking that maybe I could switch it around and start with phrases like "I have trouble sleeping" and probably come up with a few more.

Thank you! :biggrin: