The Veritas Society

Discussion Areas => Theories, Articles, and Philosophy => Topic started by: Akenu on August 04, 2014, 01:22:50 AM

Title: Alternative education
Post by: Akenu on August 04, 2014, 01:22:50 AM
There is a lot of criticism regarding alternative education. Well, let me tell you something about the mainstream one. I was in the school for 14 years. Nine years of elementary school, four years of high school and one year college.

Elementary school was the worst one in the republic (but was the nearest one). There was a lot of bullying in the school and also drugs. The only reason I didn't start with drugs was I wasn't one of the cool kids. Most lectures consisted of old Communist teacher writing really fast on the blackboard and erasing it when it was full. You weren't able to write down notes fast enough? Your problem.

I started smoking weed on the very first day of the high school, I was one of the cool kids, till 2 years later when we had an argument. Our networking teacher once told us that we are not active enough and why won't we e.g. try to get admin access to the lab computers. This teacher later hated me for hacking computers in all 3 labs we had and he did his best in attempts to fire me from the school, that didn't work out for him so he at least tried to give me a low score during graduation exams.

After high school I wanted to go to work, but I had problems with my first girlfriend which got me emotionally, then my parents gave me ultimatum, I will either go to college or I will have no home.

College wasn't so bad, I found a lot of friends there and thanks to the timesheet of lectures (2 hours lectures, 4 hours free, 4 hours lectures) I started drinking heavily (what else to do in the town where you don't know anyone). After first two semesters I left the school and went to work as a software engineer, I am in the same company since then. Oh, one thing I forgot, I studied Informatics faculty, but because the whole school was Biology oriented, I had more essays about BSE and stuff than about IT.

Generally my experience with education wasn't great. Our education system is old, teaching a lot of stuff that were either outdated or simply wrong, even nowadays I sometimes get into problems when I say something I know from school. Programming is the only thing I learned home (I originally wanted to be a game creator), and it's the thing that pays my bills now.

Critics of alternative education say you won't get important lesson about social communication. Yes, you won't meet drug dealers and the bottom of the society before they get their photo in the evidence.

Critics also say that school teaches you how to think. Yes, convergent thinking is a great way how to achieve nothing in the world. Don't take me wrong, convergent (logical) thinking is important, but you should be able to use divergent (intuitive) thinking as well.

In about a second year in the office my gf told me about her metaphysical problems and I started studying occultism. After a whole year I found out how to get her rid of the problem. Since then Magick opened various gates for me. I started being interested in arts, in psychology, even in history (I hated history since the elementary school because our teacher was old angry b*tch), I also hated literature because our Literature teacher in the high school was the same kind of b*tch as the history one.

If I sum it up, school has caused me a various problems and a hate for most of the study, I am still in the process of repairing these damages. I also believe I would be less socially awkward if I wasn't forced to sit in the same classroom with thieves, bullies and drug dealers for 13 years of my life, actually if I stole something I would be in the prison with these inmates for much shorter amount of time.

Ending up like one of our criminal students isn't a thing of genetics. It's a thing of environment. A lot of them had bad parents and bad social situation, they simply had bad luck. My best friend from elementary school was better in everything than I. But him being cool was also one of the problems, he started doing drugs. From what I have heard he never finished high school, he never got to work, he started stealing and for some time he was also selling his ass for drug money. That's the end of a cool genius kid.
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Enchia on August 04, 2014, 03:06:34 AM
It seems to me that the main problem is not how the system looks like but rather the people who function in it. Bad friends and shitty teachers are universal. I am pretty sure every one on this site had at least one shitty teacher when they where in elementary school, high school or college. That's not something new.

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Generally my experience with education wasn't great. Our education system is old, teaching a lot of stuff that were either outdated or simply wrong

I guess that is the only real problem that has to be solved institutionally.

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Critics of alternative education say you won't get important lesson about social communication.

Ideally speaking something like that should be taught at home and in interactions with other people.

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Critics also say that school teaches you how to think. Yes, convergent thinking is a great way how to achieve nothing in the world. Don't take me wrong, convergent (logical) thinking is important, but you should be able to use divergent (intuitive) thinking as well.

Don't you learn that in art class?

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If I sum it up, school has caused me a various problems and a hate for most of the study, I am still in the process of repairing these damages. I also believe I would be less socially awkward if I wasn't forced to sit in the same classroom with thieves, bullies and drug dealers for 13 years of my life, actually if I stole something I would be in the prison with these inmates for much shorter amount of time.

Sounds more like a school in a bad neighbourhood then something structural. Don't get me wrong. My first view years in highschool where similar like that (I took what is called VMBO BB in Holland and the dutch call it the plughole of the educational system) but it isn't representative for the rest of the system.
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Akenu on August 04, 2014, 03:10:54 AM
Yeah, I guess there are a lot of places where education is normal, I just wanted to share my own experience to show all the cool possibilities. And you are right that social communication should be taught mainly at home and real social environment.
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: mystic on August 05, 2014, 01:38:46 PM
But him being cool was also one of the problems, he started doing drugs. From what I have heard he never finished high school, he never got to work, he started stealing and for some time he was also selling his ass for drug money. That's the end of a cool genius kid.

That feeling always seemed foreign to me. If I think something is wrong, then social pressure won't cause me to conform, so if I know doing something has negative consequences but everyone is doing it, I will conclude they are being stupid, I don't want to be an idiot, so I am not going to do it, because what is the opinion of idiots worth thereby making their thoughts about me irrelevant. I don't really have that emotional need that so many people have, which means that it is very hard for the people around me to influence my actions based on that emotional need.

But on the other hand, it is one that happens a lot. Even moreso nowadays. Heck, there's been thousands of studies about that behavior and the importance that being a member of the peer group is on individual development. Some really insightful reading.

Nevertheless different strokes for different folks.
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Shadowx089 on August 10, 2014, 05:28:54 PM
Educations worse enemy is Entertainment. People will always swing toward what is deemed fun and entertaining to them. If smoking weed and going to party or just drinking and relaxing all day is more fun vs reading and learning, it is clear which will dominate.

The only alternative education experience I can see with any success is one that is culturally closed off from the average society and its constant distraction of entertainment at least till a certain age. You basically would have to put many families in a bubble society and the children should become tempered to their way of life then they can experience the rest of the world as a person far more intelligent than the average person. What they choose to do then is always up to the person.

The only alternative we desire in this average society and age in time is to simply receive knowledge without effort. We want the download jack from the matrix movies. That is pretty much what society is lazily primed to desire in todays time vs the alternatives. 
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Akenu on August 11, 2014, 01:54:09 AM
@Shadowx089: Or someone might finally try to use data from studies done for this many many years ago. For example Pygmalion effect is known since 1968! And I believe that Pygmalion effect will also have a great influence in case of home study.
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Steve on August 12, 2014, 10:46:46 PM
The education system isn't perfect? No kidding. If it were, we'd probably be living in a perfect world, since, you know, it's the overall adult human societies that create the schools, so if human society were perfect then school could be perfect too! But it's not, because the adults who create it and run it are not. Instead, we're living in the world that we are living in, with all of it's flaws, self-centered people, idiots, people who don't care, etc etc. So of course the education system, like any other human system, is going to reflect the various bits and pieces of that.

But, that's actually another learning aspect of the system that many ignore, but which is very important: throw a bunch of random people together for several years so that they understand a bit about what society is like. All the chaos. All the rules that are only rules because someone says they are, and which are only enforced when someone decides to enforce them. All the different types of people, including all the bad people you have to deal with who make your day shitty. It teaches you about society. Mostly, your local school's society is generally a reflection of your local area's society, so by attending school you are learning how to fit in to your local society, in addition to all the formal education.

If you don't like your local society, rejoice! For there are other local societies out there, some better than others.

~Steve
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Middelnil on August 18, 2014, 12:40:12 PM
I know that the following I'm about to say may go heavily off the topic. I'll apologize in advance.

We all have our pasts. The pasts consisting of living in a certain environment. Some of these environments may be dream-like to some people, while some of the environments could be living hell to the other. Or vice versa: the environment that's dream-like to one may be living hell to another.

Our pasts consist of experiences. These experiences have formed, and will keep forming our identities, the way how we think of ourselves and how we think about the world. Each one of these experiences, good or bad, will help us grow one way or the other. I say 'grow', since the experience will lead us to one direction, for example, make us either more social or anti-social.

Hell, I am not one to speak. I know nothing. It's true that I was bullied. Who weren't? My school was quite a small place, so I was about the only one receiving some "special attention". After 10 years of it I do admit it took some time to recuperate. I wouldn't say though that I'm traumatized. But of course the experience changed me, the way how I think of the society, of the world, of people.
 I don't drink. I don't smoke. I don't do drugs. I am vegan (I don't think of myself as a hippie; I don't love everything nor do I hate everything, I'm not a Saint either. I just am not fond of the thought of causing harm or pain to the living beings, in this case animals). The only thing I can't make myself do is sports. The another one I can think of is interaction with other people; I can do it to some degree, but I can't let anyone close enough for any kind of relationships to form. Nowadays I don't even think about it that much; relationships just don't suit me. But hey, that's just me. Of course sometimes I long for someone, anyone. But what I am trying to say is that it's not all that bad. Not when you live in the reality of your own which you can affect as much as you want, or at least you can try. Ignore the last sentence; it sounds rather disturbed, haha.

I just wish everyone good luck in their lives. After all, we all live in different realities. What feels like a heaven to some may as well be hell to the another.





Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Mind_Bender on August 18, 2014, 02:22:49 PM
Within corrupt and crappy systems we aim to create sub-systems, sub-cultures. I hated school. I got picked on, beaten up, and started getting straight F grades in middle school (on purpose. I quite trying and dropped out at 16). While I was in school, dredging through the day, I made friends with social outcasts, mainly punks, goths, and random rebellious kids.

Basically, I got my frustration out through music, hanging out with older punks and what not at the local coffee shops, and was lucky enough to have a loving father with a decently succesful martial arts school. I had a six inch mohawk and a bad attitude, certain decisions I used to regret (live and let live!), but I learned a valuable lesson - school taught me to be courages in my self, be a rebel (consciously as I got older. I know why I rebel and against what if it is necessary), and, even though the asylums of work and education may be daunting and soul sucking, it is a battlefield. These battlefields are what teach us to be who we are. Without the corruption and uselessness of certain educational and work programmes we may never know what is trully valuable to us.

On the other hand, as a newly employed social being, we learn alot from being told what to do, how to do it, and having a deadline. Discipline. As kids we're arrogant and think we know best, some of us never grow out of it. It's about finding that balance. School and work are far from perfect, but if we see the strength thay have given us - survivng through the B.S. - we continue to evolve and change according to our fate/desire.
Title: Re: Alternative education
Post by: Mind_Bender on August 18, 2014, 03:23:21 PM
Two reasons I got beaten up and picked on.

1) I had a victim mentality from my home life (divorced parents in different states). No excuses. Just the way it was. I was afraid of the reprecussions of getting beat at home, gang beaten, or sent to juvenile hall. You know, I cared about my well being and didn't like the thought of hurting others or getting hurt myself.

2) I was taught to never fight in school. I have threatened people with weapons. I learned quickly, it makes people afraid of you and not want to be friendly. It breeds hostility. I enjoy having people enjoy my presence not running from it.

I didn't drop out because of bullies, I dropped out because I disagree(d) with the school system. Hence, I found a subculture to be part of.