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Academic Areas => Study Groups => Qigong Study Group (2013) => Topic started by: Koujiryuu on June 07, 2013, 12:28:36 PM

Title: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 07, 2013, 12:28:36 PM
Post your experiences with Wuwei (Void) meditation here.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on June 08, 2013, 12:26:32 PM
I guess I'll go first. :P
Day 1(Yesterday):
Duration: 30 Minutes
Experiences: Nothing much happened until I got into more of a 'no-mind' state. Once I got there, however, it was awesome. I felt very calm and timeless. The tingling sensations I've felt from Zen meditation and the Qi Gong forms were nothing compared to the tingles I got during this meditation. It felt like I had a second layer of skin made of some sort of electrical energy. I could feel my entire body, and everything happening to it; something I've never experienced in normal waking life. I didn't see any neural discharges, so I may have been breathing incorrectly. I'll try to correct this next time.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 08, 2013, 12:48:22 PM
I guess I'll go first. :P
Day 1(Yesterday):
Duration: 30 Minutes
Experiences: Nothing much happened until I got into more of a 'no-mind' state. Once I got there, however, it was awesome. I felt very calm and timeless. The tingling sensations I've felt from Zen meditation and the Qi Gong forms were nothing compared to the tingles I got during this meditation. It felt like I had a second layer of skin made of some sort of electrical energy. I could feel my entire body, and everything happening to it; something I've never experienced in normal waking life. I didn't see any neural discharges, so I may have been breathing incorrectly. I'll try to correct this next time.

This is a good indicator of doing the meditation properly. "It felt like I had a second layer of skin made of some sort of electrical energy."

The reason you probably didn't see any neural discharges is simple: you didn't go deep enough. In Qigong and standing meditation we allow our minds to go to an "Alpha" brainwave state. However, it is much harder to get to the successive brainwave states- Beta, then Theta, then Delta- without being fully, completely relaxed. Usually, a feeling of energy all over the body and strong tingles is an indication you are in Alpha. Neural discharges is an indication of Beta. Bodily paralysis or inability to move, and feeling total void, and loss of body awareness and feeling and boundary are indicators of Theta and Delta.

The solution to this? Try the meditation lying flat on your back with your hands resting on your chest or at your sides next time. Just be careful not to fall asleep.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on June 08, 2013, 12:53:19 PM
Thanks for the reply. I'm excited to know that I was doing it at least partially correct. :)

The solution to this? Try the meditation lying flat on your back with your hands resting on your chest or at your sides next time. Just be careful not to fall asleep.



I'll try this today. Maybe after a bit of tea, to stay awake. Can the Dantian meditation be done in this way as well? Is there any benefit, aside from the ease of staying awake, to be had from sitting meditation?
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on June 08, 2013, 01:26:18 PM
Didn't feel much during except peace and I felt like I was much larger than I am. Saw some light flashes. After doing the void meditation I started to feel the warm sensations moving in the body.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 08, 2013, 04:59:01 PM
1st + 2nd day:

Yesterday I did Zen meditation first, to quiet my mind, then afterwards I did wuwei meditation. Except feeling surrounded by energy it didn't do much.

Today was different because additionally I began seeing shapes and lights moving around on my eyelids after a while.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on June 08, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
Day 2
Experiences: This time, I did it lying down like Koujiryuu suggested. I felt a lot more relaxed, and was able to focus on just thinking about nothing (paradox), and not falling asleep. At some points, I did notice flashing lights of different colors, and dancing shapes. I felt the same tingling sensations as last time. I feel incredibly at peace even now.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on June 09, 2013, 08:20:15 AM
Day 2
24 minutes. Today it was very hard to clear my mind of thoughts and when thoughts stopped I started getting moving images. In the end having tried seemed to clear my mind a bit anyway so I didn't feel any frustration.
Day 3
10 minutes. Good session, got really deep and started feeling floating sensation and getting light flashes. Had to stop because phone rang.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Eniri on June 09, 2013, 01:21:17 PM
Day 1
30 minutes. About halfway through the meditation everything seemed like it stopped in an instant. My breathing was silent, there were no more sounds around me, and my conscious mind was quiet. It seemed like my subconscious wasn't all that quiet though as I was awake and meditating but odd thoughts, almost like dreams started bubbling up that I kept having to ignore. No awareness of qi flow but I wasn't "looking" for it, as I was during the Dantian meditation.

Edit
Day 2
30 minutes. Tried meditating outside, and I did, but I don't think I will again due to how hot it is in Louisiana. Did a better job of ignoring the dream-like thoughts and returning my mind to the blank state.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 10, 2013, 08:00:17 PM
My experience.

Went downstairs to the training room. Took white sage with me on my incense burner. Sat down crosslegged, lit the white sage, said a short Native prayer (as usual). Put my hands on my knees and began to meditate. I used the Mantra "Hamsa" to keep my mind clear. Breath in, "hahm", breath out, "saahh". I continued this way for 5 minutes, taking slow, deep abdominal breaths. Within those 5 minutes I had neural discharges and a great feeling of Qi inside me. 10 minutes in, this expanded and I felt great heat and tingling in my spine and head. The whole crown of my head was tingling and very warm. I could perceive Qi moving around my head counterclockwise. My thoughts became less and less, though I was still occasionally distracted by stray thoughts. I let them ride out and finish, and kept my attention on the breath and the mantra. 15 minutes in, the heat and tingling encompassed the whole back and neck. The neural discharges were really intense at this point. My eyes began to roll back in my head and I felt electric jolts of Qi in my spine (I have active Kundalini). The feeling in my back now moved out to my lats and around the side of the waist. I could feel Qi over and around my skin like a second skin; Wei Qi. I opened my eyes and took a break for a minute to relight the sage, and because my left foot had fallen asleep. I stood up and walked it off and promptly sat back down. I continued breathing and getting up didn't change my mindstate. 25 minutes in, I was totally devoid of thought and I lost body awareness and felt in tune with the Qi of the room, and the universe. My eyes were still rolling back in my head occasionally, but something odd happened. They started to move rapidly back and forth on their own as I continued to breathe with the mantra. I began to see a white "glow" inside of my head, this actually made my eyelids get brighter. It felt as if I had a shower of golden light inside my body, starting at the head, and raining down inside of the body. I opened my eyes to double check, and the room was still lit normally. I shut them and breathed and within 30 seconds I had the same feeling, and my eyelids literally got brighter, as if there was a light in my head. My thoughts had ceased completely at this point so I stopped repeating the mantra. I continued to just sit and breathe for about 10 more minutes, and had the same sensations. I could feel my aura extending around me, even past the Wei Qi, my Qi seemed to merge with the environment, but if I focused on my body I could feel my Qi to either side of me about 3 feet. I decided I had done enough with this meditation and moved on to Dantian meditation.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Nan on June 11, 2013, 08:26:51 AM
Absolute calm. It feels very good. Accompanied by a warm feeling and strong heartbeat.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Shadow_Dragon on June 11, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
I apologize for not posting this immediately. I haven't had access to the internet for several days. Anyway, I noticed that it's very hard to keep my mind still for longer than 15 minutes. At my calmest point, I noticed that as I inhaled, I felt a slight tingling sensation spread from my lower Dantian, outwards to my shoulders, hips and sides. Even after I struggled to keep my mind still, I still felt remarkably calm.
For the first 15 minutes, I performed this exercise in seiza. My mind, for some reason or other, is always the most easily emptied in this position, but I can only hold it for about 15 minutes before it starts to hurt and distracts me from my exercise, so my hope is that I'll continue to get even more used to sitting in it for longer and longer periods.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: SMFforumID on June 12, 2013, 06:30:03 AM
I've been doing this exercise in half-lotus with left foot on top of my right knee with my left hand on my left knee and my right hand on my left foot. I found that there was pressure and some discomfort around some of my upper vertebrae so after adjusting my spine by slightly "wiggling" it to the left and to the right the discomfort greatly lessened. I think this may be due to some misalignments that my body has. This is mainly within my upper body (neck and shoulders mostly). After about 15 min (i think) I started to feel warmth, the highest intensity occurring on the left side of my body. I have been able to get to about 20 min with this exercise so far. What I also noticed was that while i was breathing i felt slight tension while inhaling. I can't quite pinpoint where this tension was except that it was within the front and to the sides going backwards (mostly the sides i think). It wasn't painful, only slightly tensed. Should I continue with this exercise until it "stabilizes" or should I go on the next one or both with one in the morning and one in the evening? Also, if anyone can suggest any exercises or yogic sequences I could do to help me with my alignments that wouldn't interfere with these exercises would be appreciated, assuming this is ok with Koujiryuu.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 12, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
I've been doing this exercise in half-lotus with left foot on top of my right knee with my left hand on my left knee and my right hand on my left foot. I found that there was pressure and some discomfort around some of my upper vertebrae so after adjusting my spine by slightly "wiggling" it to the left and to the right the discomfort greatly lessened. I think this may be due to some misalignments that my body has. This is mainly within my upper body (neck and shoulders mostly). After about 15 min (i think) I started to feel warmth, the highest intensity occurring on the left side of my body. I have been able to get to about 20 min with this exercise so far. What I also noticed was that while i was breathing i felt slight tension while inhaling. I can't quite pinpoint where this tension was except that it was within the front and to the sides going backwards (mostly the sides i think). It wasn't painful, only slightly tensed. Should I continue with this exercise until it "stabilizes" or should I go on the next one or both with one in the morning and one in the evening? Also, if anyone can suggest any exercises or yogic sequences I could do to help me with my alignments that wouldn't interfere with these exercises would be appreciated, assuming this is ok with Koujiryuu.

I would say to continue with the exercise until it improves. I am not entirely sure what you mean by tension or alignment, because it's unclear. The tension on the sides might not be tension at all and might just be you feeling your aura.

If you want Yoga I would suggest The Five Rites (http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm) but I'm not sure if this will help your problem or not. Again, it's not very clear. You said you were doing a half lotus, maybe this is the source of your discomfort. Perhaps try it crosslegged first and see if it improves your problem.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 12, 2013, 12:50:20 PM
Not much changed. Feel my Wei Qi surrounding me, a tingling, electrical energy flowing upwards in my spine from between my shoulder blades over the back of my head to my crown. Sometimes I feel like falling into myself, as if the inside of my body has turned into an endless void.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on June 12, 2013, 01:03:09 PM
I've been doing this exercise in half-lotus with left foot on top of my right knee with my left hand on my left knee and my right hand on my left foot. I found that there was pressure and some discomfort around some of my upper vertebrae so after adjusting my spine by slightly "wiggling" it to the left and to the right the discomfort greatly lessened. I think this may be due to some misalignments that my body has. This is mainly within my upper body (neck and shoulders mostly). After about 15 min (i think) I started to feel warmth, the highest intensity occurring on the left side of my body. I have been able to get to about 20 min with this exercise so far. What I also noticed was that while i was breathing i felt slight tension while inhaling. I can't quite pinpoint where this tension was except that it was within the front and to the sides going backwards (mostly the sides i think). It wasn't painful, only slightly tensed. Should I continue with this exercise until it "stabilizes" or should I go on the next one or both with one in the morning and one in the evening? Also, if anyone can suggest any exercises or yogic sequences I could do to help me with my alignments that wouldn't interfere with these exercises would be appreciated, assuming this is ok with Koujiryuu.
I've had much the same tension as you while performing sitting meditation. It's part of the reason I prefer to lie down. The right side of my back seems to be a lot stronger than my right side, and it leads to a lot of posture problems. All I can recommend is experimenting with different ways of sitting, and/or going to the doctor to see if you have a similar problem. (I typically can't sit straight up during a meditation; I have to lean slightly in different directions so that the whole of my back is worked fairly equally.

Regarding the tension you feel while breathing, I would recommend sitting on a pillow of some sort while performing meditation. If you position the pillow in such a way that your pelvis tilts slightly forward and your spine remains erect, you may feel much more 'open'. If that doesn't work, or you already do it, I would again recommend trying different positions, or lying down to meditate. I feel like I take much deeper breaths lying down. :P
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Shinichi on June 13, 2013, 07:49:47 PM
Ahem! I am alive. I haven't managed to do the daily journal thing this week, but I have been practicing. Not as much as I want, but as much as I am able, and usually averaging a minimum of 30 minutes a day (with more for several days this week).

So, meditation.

I have one major observation for wuwei meditation:

It is maddening! (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h26/Zekk-sama/Ooki/llorar.gif)

You see, it has been a while since I have meditated consistently. Last year, actually. Life kinda got in the way, so I haven't had a daily habit of meditating for a while. Even so, I thought that I could make my mind shut up just a little.

But no! Of course, the maddening bit is a good thing. It means I am becoming more aware of my mind, instead of simply ignoring it as I have, apparently, been doing.

But it is maddening! (http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h26/Zekk-sama/Ooki/1_mupeng.gif)

Okay, but really. Other than that bit, this has been good practice for me. I clearly still have much practice to do, but I am grateful for the experience of being shown how much work I need to do to properly reign in my mind.



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on June 14, 2013, 07:51:55 AM
I have one major observation for wuwei meditation:

It is maddening!
Same here, I worked the time up to 40+ mins, because I felt that I didn't really reach the quiet I intended in the first 30. The bonus time was worth it. Surprising is I've needed alot less sleep when I started doing 30+ mins meditations.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: random_noob on June 15, 2013, 02:51:10 AM
My experiences seem to vary. What always happens is a calming of the mind, a heating up of the upper body and a weak electrical tingling in hands, arms and shoulders.

On good days, I start to sense a weird feeling in my chest after which my meditation gets deeper. However, after some minutes of deepening, I start to hit a wall and my thoughts slowly come back.

On bad days, I can't calm my thoughts properly, so after a while I accept that fact and go to sleep (I habitually do void meditation before sleep for several weeks now).

Furthermore, I often try to enter a void mindset during normal daily activities. At those times, I also experience an electrical tingling (predominantly in my left hand and arm) accompanied by a warming up of the upper half of my body and calmness of mind.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: SMFforumID on June 19, 2013, 09:53:18 AM
Update on Posture:

I am still using half-lotus because full lotus is too constrictive for me to meditate with at the present time, and I sit way too much in the cross legged position throughout the day to use for meditation. Also, the cross legged position placed to much pressure and discomfort on one of my feet and half lotus seems to help with that. I have also been using a pillow because that seems to help with my posture (thanks  Impervious). I have not tried this laying down yet. Also, I have my hands on my knees.

Update on Experience:

It still takes a bit of time adjusting the position and placement of the pillow (still have some tension in the neck and shoulders), but once I did some interesting things happened. While settling into position, making subtle adjustments to my posture (mostly the spine) I was trying to find the position at which it takes no voluntary effort to stay upright. As I found this a few things happened either simultaneously or near simultaneously. First, I had a physical sensation that I guess is best described as being similar to that of anticipation/excitement/nervousness; its kinda hard to explain. The best thing I can liken it to is the feeling you get when you are going out on a first date with someone and you are waiting for them to arrive or the feeling you get when your waiting to open your Christmas presents. This sensation didn't last too long and was accompanied with the sensation of "letting go". A little while later (not sure how long) my body began to "feel connected" warm and relaxed, not completely relaxed but much more so than before. Shortly after my attention was drawn to my head because I felt a pressure starting to build. The pressure was at the front of my head, from about my eyebrows over my forehead and onto the top of my head ( but only a little over my head maybee 1/4 of an inch but i'm guessing here) AND the pressure was also at the back of my head from where my last vertebrae is at the back of my head up over the "little hump" (from my last vertebrae upwards may be 1/4 of an inch but i'm guessing here). This "pressure" gave way to a definite flowing that feels similar to an electric shock but without any pain and much less intensity than an actual shock. I only felt these sensations at the front and back of the head NOT the entire head and not across the whole top and not all the way up the head.The "pressure" feeling may have been still present but it was greatly lessened as my attention was drawn to the "flowing". I could not tell which direction the "flowing" occurred only that it was present. Now as all this happened rather fast, I didn't experience these things for long. Today was the first day that I felt this and the entire time I did this exercise was about 40 min. I still didn't see any lights behind my eyes.

Any thoughts? and Koujiryuu should I do the tantien exercise now or still stay with this one?

Also, Impervious: how did you find out that your right side is stronger than your left one?
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 19, 2013, 10:43:46 AM
SMF, please practice this and Dantian meditation and post your experiences with each as soon as you can. We're almost to week 4.

If you have trouble with sitting positions, do the exercise laying down flat on the back.

It seems you are having trouble with and getting hung up on the posture being perfect, which isn't the goal of the exercises. The goal is to just be as comfortable as you can be, and let go of it so you may work on the mind. What is most important is the detachment from the physical body, and the focus on the breathing, and quieting the mind.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: jimdare on July 13, 2013, 05:35:02 PM
It looks like I missed this one out.  My experiences with Wuwei mediation are as follows;  I focus on my breath and allow myself to sink into the ground.  After about five minutes of this, I can feel a distinct tingling in my palms and fingertips.  I try to maintain focus on my breath, but sometimes it slips to focus on the buzzing feeling instead.  One time I focused on the buzzing feeling in my head, and it felt like there was a force from above that was pushing me downwards.  I don't experience neural discharges like other people seem to, perhaps this is because they aren't significantly different from what I experience before sleep on a day to day basis, or perhaps my meditation is not deep enough.  When I come around, my hands continue to tingle for about ten minutes, and I feel very relaxed and refreshed.
Title: Re: Exercise 3: Wuwei meditation experiences
Post by: Akenu on July 16, 2013, 04:41:29 AM
I usually do this exercise while laying on my back, rarely in asana position. Generally I get a feeling of my body being "melted", in other words like borders of my body were disappearing in electric field.