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Academic Areas => Study Groups => Qigong Study Group (2013) => Topic started by: Koujiryuu on May 28, 2013, 06:19:55 PM

Title: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 28, 2013, 06:19:55 PM
This is the experience thread for Exercise 2: Zen meditation.

Post your experiences with Zen meditation here.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Fanna on May 29, 2013, 10:05:06 AM
Zen meditation day 1:
I managed to do 25 minutes as I eventually got distracted by my lower foot going numb and the ensuing pins and needles from trying to reposition it. Any tips? Otherwise, the 25 minutes went more quickly than I imagined it would and I was able to maintain focus on the object fairly well with no other interfering thoughts. About 3 minutes in though I had the sensation of my throat tightening. It wasn't bothersome so I continued to keep focus on the object and work through it. By the end the sensation dissipated. I did notice tingling and a bit cooler in my pinky and ring fingers of both hands. By the end, I was certainly more relaxed and moved on to the three basic forms.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 29, 2013, 12:51:13 PM
Quote
Insert Quote
Zen meditation day 1:
I managed to do 25 minutes as I eventually got distracted by my lower foot going numb and the ensuing pins and needles from trying to reposition it. Any tips? Otherwise, the 25 minutes went more quickly than I imagined it would and I was able to maintain focus on the object fairly well with no other interfering thoughts. About 3 minutes in though I had the sensation of my throat tightening. It wasn't bothersome so I continued to keep focus on the object and work through it. By the end the sensation dissipated. I did notice tingling and a bit cooler in my pinky and ring fingers of both hands. By the end, I was certainly more relaxed and moved on to the three basic forms.

Throat tightening I'm not sure about. Might be a side effect of doing the deep breathing.

As far as your foot goes, move it once a minute to prevent this (wiggle your toes, bend the knee slightly out to move the foot out a bit, etc). Also, every ten minutes or so you can switch your inside and outside legs if you're sitting crosslegged. For example, if your left leg is inside of your right leg, and the left foot becomes bothersome, then switch so the right leg is the one on the inside.

If you have persistent problems with this and it interrupts your meditation, try sitting a different way that's easier for you. Instead of sitting crosslegged, sit with your back against a wall and stretch the feet straight out in front of you, keep the legs together, with the toes pointing up.

Also, it should be noted that my approach is one of simplicity. If you have an itch or something and it's interfering with your meditation, then scratch it. I'm not going to tell you to sit there and ignore it for some other purpose and have it drive you wild and disrupt your inner peace when it is simply easier to scratch it and eliminate it with little risk of breaking your state of mind.

I suppose a little later when someone is here to take pictures of me I'll take a few of alternate meditation positions for people who have trouble sitting crosslegged.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on May 29, 2013, 02:24:09 PM
First day:
16 minutes set. Sitting on a bed. It was a bad idea since it was too soft and had to stop because of bad circulation in legs. Easing into the dot(nail on the wall) was not that hard but my mind started wandering pretty hard.
13 minutes set. Sitting on a rug. It looked like objects besides the dot on the wall started to become blurry or unfocused. Mind still wandered pretty hard but I could feel more centered during meditating and after. My head feels relaxed and I have less unnecessary thoughts floating around in my mind than usual.

Second day:
Decided to change position to seiza because I can :P
11 minutes set in seiza. I started to feel strong floating sensation pretty soon that lasted the whole session. Had to stop early because of discomfort.
16 minutes set in seiza. Pleasant floating sensation in chest and head. Brief moments of not thinking and just listening. After I stood up the sensation spread to lower body also. Sense of calm followed practice.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on May 29, 2013, 02:27:32 PM
Day 1:
Duration:~26 minutes
Experience: About 5-10 minutes in, I started feeling a sort of tingling sensation all over my body. It felt like there was a sort of current moving around just a few milimeters above my skin. This sort of feeling happens a lot when I meditate, so I can't claim that it is Qi flow, or anything like that. I felt very focused by the end of the meditation. I also felt very energetic, but in a more reserved, peaceful way as opposed to feeling hyperactive.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on May 29, 2013, 04:26:56 PM
Day 1:

Around 20 minute session: Feeling of Vibration in hands, arms and head. Deep vibrating sound in my ears. Then a short time in my body started shaking, like it does so often in the last months during meditation. Sadly I had to stop after 20 minutes since my eyes really hurt. Comes from staring at a computer screen at work all day and at 1 am I'm tired too. But tomorrow will be better, since it's a legal holiday (yay, finally getting sleep again)
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: malignant rice on May 29, 2013, 06:15:28 PM
Day 1: 10 minute session due to time constraints.

As I focused on the object and began the breathing I began to have small spasms in my right arm, and as I continued I began to notice a slight unfocusing of my eyes which went away after a couple of minutes of noticing. Shortly after I had to leave on errands which cut the session rather short. :redface:
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 29, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
Good experiences guys. Remember you can discuss each other's posts to gain understanding.

Here are some alternate meditation positions for those who want to really strain themselves, or who have bad knees and feet falling asleep.

For bad knees:

One Legged Buddha

(http://s13.postimg.org/58j893mzb/oneleggedbuddha.jpg)

Two Legged Buddha

(http://s9.postimg.org/9nbvloutr/twoleggedbuddha.jpg)

Straight Leg

(http://s3.postimg.org/nbmhzsy37/straight_leg.jpg)

For very fit people who want a challenge

Half Lotus (also Full Lotus)

(http://s24.postimg.org/bqcjvtbr9/half_lotus.jpg)

Seiza (sitting this way generates tremendous internal force, similar to Zhan Zhuang, because of how hard it is on the legs, this is why Aikido is strong)

(http://s9.postimg.org/4si6newi7/seiza.jpg)
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shinichi on May 29, 2013, 10:33:54 PM
I will be using this post as a journal and editing it daily (I hope) for the next week, adding in new experiences with the exercises.

Day 1

I practiced 15 minutes or after waking up today after my other meditation (in retrospect, this is better done before other meditations). There were no notable experiences, because it is very difficult for me to relax my mind sometimes. I will note, however, that when Kouji says the focal point should be a speck, he means it. A small point is a lot easier to concentrate on than a larger dot or such.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 29, 2013, 11:06:01 PM
Great observation.

The smaller it is (but still visible), the better.

You may even see it begin to glow after some time.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Eniri on May 30, 2013, 07:42:44 AM
Stuck a quartz on the table and meditated on it for 26 minutes. The more I did the more difficult it became to focus. I noticed two things in my peripheral vision began vibrating, a handle to a hair brush and a nail on my desk. My eyes feel tired now.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on May 30, 2013, 11:51:25 AM
Stuck a quartz on the table and meditated on it for 26 minutes. The more I did the more difficult it became to focus. I noticed two things in my peripheral vision began vibrating, a handle to a hair brush and a nail on my desk. My eyes feel tired now.
Are you sure you are not tensing your eyes while focusing? My eyes feel relaxed after this meditation.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Nan on May 30, 2013, 12:49:17 PM
Sat cross-legged which worked fine for me. I think I'll do another position tomorrow.

After a mere four minutes I had to stop.

My vision was blurred, order was forming and the blurred vision started moving. At one point something in my vision began pulsing.

My heart beat was strong and I had at first a tight feeling around the top of my head which was replaced shortly by a light-headed, slightly happy feeling.

Afterwards I was physically tired and a warm feeling spread through my shoulders and the rest of my body.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 01:28:29 PM
Zen meditation experience:

I did this after doing 30 minutes of Qigong yesterday (see other thread).

I did the meditation for 30 minutes.

(http://s16.postimg.org/e0t0x1ik5/ball.jpg)

I had already used nosespray to clear the sinuses, drank a glass of water, but after doing Qigong I needed the bathroom again, so I used it before starting so I wouldn't be distracted.

I burned some Nag Champa incense to help clear the mind.

I focused on a white spot on a big green balance ball in my basement (as seen above).

I meditated and stared at the spot.

After 2 minutes, the spot began to glow. After 5 minutes, the whole ball seemed to glow. After 10 minutes, the whole room seemed to glow, and the spot was glowing even brighter than before. I closed my eyes briefly and saw intense neural discharges in the eyelids. This is what was distorting my vision. I opened my eyes and continued. After 15 minutes, everything was glowing, and had lost color- everything seemed washed out. The ball itself no longer appeared green, but black. The spot was brighter than ever. The ball itself seemed like it was moving, though it wasn't, it seemed like it could move at any time. After 20 minutes, I felt a strong connectedness with the dot, and with everything in the room. Everything in the room seemed to concentrate into that one point. After 25 minutes, I thought that the dot and I were not so different, and it seemed to be alive too. It seemed like an external manifestation of me, or spirit. After 30 minutes, I cannot remember what happened, but I recall feeling like I was in another place and time. I realized I had been doing the meditation for 30 minutes, and so I stopped. I counted from 1 to 5 in my head and then said "I am awake". I stopped looking at the dot, and got up slowly and stretched a little bit. I then went and got a glass of water.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on May 30, 2013, 03:32:16 PM
2nd Day:

Couldn't completely quiet my mind. Got a song stuck there, I do love music, but sometimes that's annoying.
First my eyes started twitching from left to right, making it hard to focus. After a few minutes the room seemed to be covered in a glowing veil. After a while I saw a pulsing in that veil, moving from the lower left corner of my field of vision to the upper right corner again and again. My whole body felt like it was vibrating and again I had the low hum my ears. Then the room started moving, sometimes spinning, sometimes the things moving from left to right, not all in the same direction. The muscles in my spine started locking, straightening my torso, my chest was being pushed out, then came the shaking, either from left to right or my body jumped up and down. My vision went from being covered in glowing veil to intense focus and clear view of everything in my field of vision and back again. It seemed like my left eye lost focus every now and then, getting blurry and refocusing again.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 04:08:51 PM
Aprophis, were you doing correct deep belly breathing while doing this exercise?

Those involuntary movements are a bit on the extreme side. Zen meditation is powerful, but it's usually very calm. The goal is to be in control of yourself, and have focus on one point in space. I have not heard of others having similar experiences and I'm a little concerned- though if you are generating a tremendous amount of focus and energy, sometimes it needs to manifest itself somehow and this can cause the sensations you experienced.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on May 30, 2013, 05:56:24 PM
Day 2
Duration: 25 minutes
Experiences: After about ten minutes, my object started glowing; kind of like Koujiryuu's. But after about five more minutes, my object seemed to do the exact opposite and "fade" into the background. Interestingly, this didn't make it any harder to focus on. I'm not sure if that means I was doing the meditation incorrectly. :P

Otherwise, everything was basically the same as the last meditation. I felt the same kind of tingling sensations, but they seemed more pronounced. I also noticed occasional perspective changes (at one point I felt like I was floating; at another, it seemed like I was rushing toward the object I was focusing on), and a few instances of intense euphoria. I didn't acknowledge these feelings, and eventually they passed.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Fanna on May 30, 2013, 06:21:04 PM
Zen meditation day 2:

Tried Two Legged Buddha position (much better, thanks for posting the pics!). For the first five minutes or so, a fog developed over my entire view - maybe an effect from focusing on a small object? Nothing was blurry while this happened and I felt no strain on my eyes. I tried to blink it out anyway and looked away from the object for a bit. That didn't do anything but it eventually cleared on its own and I persisted in my focus. Midway through the meditation I felt slow twitching on my back inner thigh which moved to the front then picked up on my calf. This lasted no more than 30 seconds. Soon after, the room itself seemed to be wavy, swaying. While in this wavy moment, I felt my awareness shift. I can't explain it adequately but it felt expansive as if I was absorbed in this wave, all the while focusing on this knob which seemed to acknowledge the moment so nonchalantly. The throat-tightening was still there throughout the meditation but by the end, as it dissipated, I felt a burst of warmth rush up from my throat to my cheeks and then up my scalp. No sensations in my fingers today.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shadow_Dragon on May 30, 2013, 07:27:10 PM
The duration of my exercise was 30 minutes. The first 15 minutes I sat in Padmasana (Full Lotus Pose), but because I usually never exceed 10 minutes in that pose, by minute 15 my ankles were aching, so I just switched to Half Lotus and sat that way for the next 15 minutes. I might try and sit in Seiza, instead, because I associate Padmasana with Yoga, and to me Seiza makes much more sense for someone practicing Qigong. However, Kouji, if you have any clarification on this I would highly appreciate it. Anyway, It was easy to keep concentration on my object for the first 20 minutes, for the most part, with only a few glitches here and there. I've always had problems emptying my mind, but I am absolutely determined to master this technique. I believe the Tao Te Jing says it best, "When the mind is still, all things under Heaven fall into place". This concept made sense to me around the 15-20 minute mark, when for a couple minutes, my mind was almost perfectly still, and my sense of time seemed to vanish a little bit. As I inhaled, I could feel hot water spreading from my Middle Dantien, and through my body. Then I started thinking about those feelings, and at that point the experience ended and my active mind started to race again. The last 10 minutes were hard for me as a result, as I often drifted to thought instead of focusing on my exercise. I'm excited to try this again and get good at it.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 07:36:59 PM
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
The first 15 minutes I sat in Padmasana (Full Lotus Pose), but because I usually never exceed 10 minutes in that pose, by minute 15 my ankles were aching, so I just switched to Half Lotus and sat that way for the next 15 minutes. I might try and sit in Seiza, instead, because I associate Padmasana with Yoga, and to me Seiza makes much more sense for someone practicing Qigong. However, Kouji, if you have any clarification on this I would highly appreciate it.

Seiza is a traditional Japanese sit. So, it is not really related to Qigong, but more to Aikido.

Along with Zhan Zhuang it will develop tremendous internal power, and power in the legs.

If you want to sit this way, that's fine. However, if you encounter any pain, stop immediately so you don't injure yourself.

Again, the key to correctly practicing this meditation is to be comfortable. If you are not comfortable, the mind won't detach, and you will never experience the essence of the meditation because you will be focused on your physical condition.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shadow_Dragon on May 30, 2013, 07:42:27 PM
I will keep that in mind. I practiced Aikido and Tatsu-Do Karate for some time, and they both emphasized sitting in Seiza when not practicing techniques or Kata, but I never knew why, exactly. I am used to sitting in it so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. I think now that I know it's purpose, I will sit in Seiza instead of Padmasana for the development of Internal Power. Thank you.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shinichi on May 30, 2013, 10:26:24 PM
On Seiza: It is also a traditional posture in Hatha Yoga, although it is variant slightly. It is called "Hero Pose."

Day 2

Meditation while sleepy is not very productive.

I attempted to persist with the method for this week, but I kept slipping back into my default methods of meditation. It wasn't a bad meditation session, but it only lasted about 15 minutes, and I still don't feel it was what it should have been because I was sleepy. It may have been better to just go to bed and do it in the morning with a fresh mind, then try to push a tired mind to relax.




~:Shin:~
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 30, 2013, 10:48:18 PM
Yeah, if you meditate while tired you'll just want to go to sleep.

Better to do it in the morning.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on May 31, 2013, 02:04:18 AM
Aprophis, were you doing correct deep belly breathing while doing this exercise?

Those involuntary movements are a bit on the extreme side. Zen meditation is powerful, but it's usually very calm. The goal is to be in control of yourself, and have focus on one point in space. I have not heard of others having similar experiences and I'm a little concerned- though if you are generating a tremendous amount of focus and energy, sometimes it needs to manifest itself somehow and this can cause the sensations you experienced.

Belly breathing yes, but during meditation my breathing becomes flat, and I would have to force myself to continue breathing deep which distracts my focus, so I do what's natural and continue breathing like my body tells me to.

I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I have that nearly every time I'm meditating, except when I either can't empty my mind or when I'm too tired and nearly fall asleep. It started about 1.5 years ago, when I did sukha purvaka for a month. Since then it happens during meditation, although the reactions were stronger in the beginning, my body was nearly shaking violently back then (never hurt myself though) but now it seems to quiet down. The locking of the muscles around my spine and the pushing out the chest is fairly new, started about a month ago.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on May 31, 2013, 02:58:34 PM
3rd Day:

Weeeeeeeeeeell, this was interesting. First thing to happen was that my face was all tingly. Then the glowing veil started to cover everything, the pulsing from bottom left to top right came.  Afterwards I started shaking again and then I felt energy being pushed into my crown, not just flowing, but being pushed. Today even my head vibrated, meaning it started shaking quickly. This hasn't happened often yet, but it happened before. After 30 minutes when I got up, my body twitched with every step I took. Now I can finally register at the ministry of silly walks. My body still twitches occasionally now and my crown is still tingling a lot.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Eniri on May 31, 2013, 04:25:26 PM
Tried to remove distractions this time. Drew a dot on a piece of paper and set that against a white wall. Meditated for 30 minutes. Twice the dot briefly turned white, other times it was pitch black and felt like a hole. Stuff went on in my peripheral vision but nothing really profound. After a while the dot consistently had an aura.

My eyes keep refocusing though. I guess it's just a reflex? After a good while of meditating though I did notice I didn't feel like I was looking at all. Sure my eyes were open and I was seeing, but I wasn't "looking" anymore. That was interesting.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on May 31, 2013, 04:46:46 PM
Tried to remove distractions this time. Drew a dot on a piece of paper and set that against a white wall. Meditated for 30 minutes. Twice the dot briefly turned white, other times it was pitch black and felt like a hole. Stuff went on in my peripheral vision but nothing really profound. After a while the dot consistently had an aura.

My eyes keep refocusing though. I guess it's just a reflex? After a good while of meditating though I did notice I didn't feel like I was looking at all. Sure my eyes were open and I was seeing, but I wasn't "looking" anymore. That was interesting.

Your eyes refocusing is normal. This basically happens when your mind gets distracted by a thought, or something in your peripheral vision, or even neural discharges. So then, you have to refocus the eyes to maintain your attention. This is natural and not a big deal. As you practice this more (or even move on to using a candle flame) you will find yourself refocusing less and less. For example, once I get situated and get into it, I can maintain my gaze for 5 minutes or so before my concentration gets broken.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shinichi on May 31, 2013, 09:41:22 PM
Day 3

I did 15 minutes this morning, and about 12 tonight. I could have persisted a few more minutes, but the sleepiness thing was hitting me again, and I was losing focus very badly.

For the first time, ever, in about six or seven years--I almost fell asleep while meditating tonight...  :confused:



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: malignant rice on May 31, 2013, 10:22:09 PM
Day 2 and 3(as both experiences were nearly exact.)

I sat down and meditated for aproximately 20 minutes while focusing on a small dot I placed on my door. About 5 or 6 minutes in, the area around the dot began to fade into a hazy glow that was similar to looking at sunlight hitting steam, this lasted all
throughout the 2nd day's meditation, however on the 3rd day it only lasted a few minutes before stopping
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on May 31, 2013, 11:42:05 PM
Day 3
Duration: 15 minutes
Experiences: Unfortunately, I had to wait until close to midnight to meditate today. Because of this, I had the same problems as Shinichi (lack of focus, sleepiness). I will say that the tingling sensations I've been experiencing seem to begin a very tiny bit earlier each time I meditate.

Tomorrow I'll be meditating outside in daylight. Hopefully I'll get a much fuller experience this way.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on June 01, 2013, 09:41:03 AM
Day 3

Had so much to do I left meditation to the late evening. Managed to do only 3 minutes before I decided to get sleep instead.

Day 4

Zen meditation in seiza 16 minutes. Was very hard to stay focused/motivated today. Mind wandering and posture needed to be corrected. Still I felt warmth during and after.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 01, 2013, 02:43:49 PM
4th Day:

In the beginning my face, my crown and then my tongue started tingling and it felt like energy is flowing. Then later during the meditation my throat started tingling too and my chest followed. I had the feeling that energy was flowing through my hands and arms. Today I didn't shake as much as the days before, only thing is that my eyes started twitching, which made it hard to keep my focus. Nevertheless my field of vision continuously changed back and forth from blanking out except the spot to seeing everything at once.
After the meditation my crown really felt charged and my face keeps on tingling.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shinichi on June 02, 2013, 08:44:28 AM
Day 4

Last night, I meditated for 20 minutes, but it was a very...interesting experience. I've had trouble with the focal points I've been using, so I decided to make one. I took a yellow post it note, drew a pencil dot in the center, and stuck it on the back of the office chair at my desk, which is black. Then, I sat down and stared at the dot.

And thus the mind spanking began.

After a moment of meditating, I noticed the paper glowing. After a few more moments, I noticed the dot...moving. Thinking it was my eyes, I got up and got my glasses.

I sat back down, focused again, and again...glowing, followed by the moving dot. And then, the dot disappeared entirely.

Huge logic fail. Major "glitch in the matrix!!!" moment.  :P

It actually took me a minute to wrap my head around the fact that I had accidentally created an optical illusion sort of thing, and my eyes were literally playing tricks on me. However, this turned out to be a very useful tool for me. If my mind drifts, and I lose concentration from the dot, the dot disappears. That is, as was mentioned, a major "glitch in the matrix" sort of feeling. Thus, so that the dot doesn't vanish, I have to concentrate on it. It led to some decent Trataka like practice, even with the whole no blinking thing. Which wasn't even intentional, just a side effect of staring and concentrating.

Day 5

This morning, I meditated for 30 minutes, using the dot on the paper again. Again, the whole vanishing dot thing was a factor, but it turns out to be an interesting tool to force me to concentrate on the dot. It seems to like attention.  :P



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Henry on June 02, 2013, 01:37:45 PM
I find that keeping my eyes open is very difficult, so I decided to focus on the breath instead. Will this have the same effect as focusing on something with my eyes open? Anyway, I found it very difficult to focus solely on the breath. My mind wanders without me noticing until I am thinking of something far away from my breath. On the days that I have somewhat few thoughts though, my head starts vibrating slightly.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 02, 2013, 02:01:08 PM
I find that keeping my eyes open is very difficult, so I decided to focus on the breath instead. Will this have the same effect as focusing on something with my eyes open? Anyway, I found it very difficult to focus solely on the breath. My mind wanders without me noticing until I am thinking of something far away from my breath. On the days that I have somewhat few thoughts though, my head starts vibrating slightly.

It is very important to keep your eyes open and focus on the dot during this exercise.

The meditations next week build on the skills developed in this exercise.

Please practice the exercise as advised.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 02, 2013, 02:37:44 PM
4th Day:

Today I could nearly sit still for the whole meditation, occasional twitches were there, but they were weak. I did notice that the hair on my arms, my neck and the back of my head stood up and I can still feel that. Otherwise the experiences were the same as before.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Fanna on June 02, 2013, 03:41:28 PM
Zen meditation day 3:

I must have slept wrong and moved too quickly as I developed a killer muscle cramp between my shoulder blades. Tried to massage it out and took some Advil but it got worse throughout the day. Being immobile anyway, I figured I could at least try the meditation but after a few deep breathes I realized that even this was too painful so I stopped. :(

Zen meditation day 4:

I decided that Advil wasn't doing much for my muscle cramp so I tried magnesium instead. This helped enough so that it didn't hurt to breathe deep. I did my best to focus on the object but I kept getting distracted by one thing or another, which left me feeling frustrated. I figured I wasn't doing myself any favors in this frame of mind and stopped the meditation after five minutes.

Zen meditation day 5:

Since I knew I would be doing the forms later in the day, I decided to try my meditation then too. I definitely find it easier to clear the mind and maintain focus in the mornings before the day's stresses take hold. While thoughts kept creeping in, I did my best for 15 minutes. Surprisingly, while I couldn't maintain focus during the meditation, it did help in clearing the distraction while doing the forms right after.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: jimdare on June 02, 2013, 11:30:03 PM
Zen meditation tends to hurt my eyes a bit.  My perception of colour changes with time and things appear more washed out.  I tend to get the same hypersensitivity/tingling that I get with the qigong exercises.  I use a point on an old pink floyd poster as my 'spot'; sometimes the rest of the poster appears to warp and move.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 02, 2013, 11:36:54 PM
jim, that sounds awesome and fitting of Pink Floyd.

 :P
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Impervious on June 03, 2013, 12:58:40 AM
(I'm done posting experiences in the first week thread, after this post. I'll most definitely still be practicing, though! I just wanted to share this one because it was my most powerful experience so far).

Day 5:
Duration: 22 minutes
Experiences: The first ten minutes were business as usual, but after that, things got cool: My point of focus started glowing, and the rest of my vision sort of followed suit. It was a milder version of how I imagine Koujiryuu's experience going. During all of this, I felt the tingling sensations I normally feel, but in full force. I felt absolutely brimming with energy. At the same time, I felt absolutely at peace. I hardly associated with my body during this time, aside from the aforementioned tingling. These sensations slowly died down as I brought the meditation to a slightly early close, but I can still feel residual tinglings as I'm writing this.

It's very strange to feel so energetic and calm at the same time, but it is a good feeling. All around, I would call this a success.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: icefire on June 03, 2013, 07:53:26 AM
Do you think you could do this while visualizing a dot instead of staring at one? Last couple of days have been hard on my eyes and I can't do this for more than 5 mins now.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 03, 2013, 12:25:15 PM
It is best to just use an actual dot.

If your eyes hurt, try using one that's bigger and putting it closer to you. Draw one about an inch around with a permanent marker on a piece of paper. Place it on a wall about three feet away from you.

Alternatively, you already have your experience post, so you can just discontinue the practice altogether if it's bothering you that much. Do your Qigong forms instead.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 03, 2013, 03:09:00 PM
5th Day:

Couldn't keep my eyes open. They are burning too much today. Also had some twitches. Did only meditate for 10 minutes. However my crown and my forehead are tingling like crazy after this meditation. Also I noticed really tiny glowing dots appear on the black spot I focused on that were moving around.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 04, 2013, 02:56:27 PM
6th Day:

Felt like energy was flowing up the back of my head over my crown to my forehead. Also the little glowing dots were not just visible on the black spot I focused on but also in my whole field of vision. Also my field of vision expanded a bit during focussing, at least the perceived one.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Shinichi on June 04, 2013, 09:09:04 PM
Day 6

I did not do any practice today. Although I hate to use anything that even resembles an excuse, circumstances simply prevented me from having the time I would have liked.

Day 7

I did the meditation for about 20 minutes, focusing on the same post it note dot that I mentioned before. A few thought trains proved to be very distracting, but for the most part I managed to concentrate, and when I relaxed into it I felt energy moving around various places. Head especially.

EDIT:

Day 8

I managed to sit down and practice for about 20 minutes, again using the post it thing. I've decided that, amusing and interesting as it is, that dot doesn't seem to be good fro my eyes. Which is unfortunate, because the position I had it in was perfect for doing this. I still managed to concentrate a fair bit, but out of 20 minutes, I'd say I only got 10 minutes of actual practice because the distraction of the vanishing dot.



~:Shin:~
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Aprophis on June 06, 2013, 04:26:32 PM
7th day:

It was easy to focus on the spot and I could even keep my eyes open for a longer time than usual.

8th day:

Was too tired to meditate and my eyes were hurting too much.

9th day:

Today the focus was really intense and I could really feel my Wei Qi surrounding my body today. I even spaced out once or twice while still focussing on the spot, it was like I was there and not there at the same time.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 06, 2013, 06:19:56 PM
Great experiences guys, keep it up.

New lesson tomorrow.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: jimdare on June 06, 2013, 08:04:44 PM
Two other things I want to share:

1.  The other day I attended my weekly Buddhist meditation class, where we spend much of the class focused on the teacher in a similar state to zen meditation.  After about fifteen minutes, I could feel a kind of repulsive force between my hands and from my dan tien.  When I focused on this, It felt like I could 'push' this out further.  It felt like repulsive magnets.

2. I can sometimes feel the tingling sensation during the day.  This seems to be focused around my palms, but I have also started to feel it in my shins. Last night I felt it while lying down in bed.  I focused on my dan tien and tried to extend this feeling to my whole body.  When my partner came to bed, I could 'feel' every light switch she turned off, i.e. my body reacted to the sharp sound in a way similar to static electricity.  It's a pretty weird sensation!
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Koujiryuu on June 06, 2013, 09:37:43 PM
Jim- sounds very good.

Seems like you are learning to listen to your body more, which is the first step in truly feeling Qi.

Keep it up.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Eniri on June 07, 2013, 10:36:45 AM
4th day of meditation. Now that I've moved I can properly do this.

I meditated for 15 minutes around noon. I'll edit this after 15 more minutes later today. However I had the problem that the muscles in my eyes occasionally twitch and set everything back to "normal" focus.

As I concentrated on my spot, a couple of times it disappeared and vanished into the background. But it quickly returned after that. Other times it seemed like it was glowing, or that there were vague things written inside it. I stopped after 15 minutes because my eyes began to hurt and get watery. It's likely my allergies.

The room around my briefly spun, and some times it seemed like the spot got closer to me. Other times it changed shape from a dot to a triangle or some other odd shapes. It also jumped up and down a small bit.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: Akenu on June 12, 2013, 12:29:44 AM
Common experiences for me are:
Screen going white (or brighter), then it gets colored to violet or purple, this color than keeps getting smaller and smaller till it disappears in the center of the vision screen, symbols are also changing shapes, etc.

From physical experiences, sometimes after the meditation I have a feeling of detachment, it feels just like the surrounding is not related to you in any instance, like you were completely disassociated from your environment, the body also usually feels much lighter in such case.
Title: Re: Exercise 2: Zen meditation experiences
Post by: SMFforumID on July 16, 2013, 03:30:27 PM
After double checking, I noticed that I forgot to post so here is my experience:

I stared at the "dot" for about 15 minutes. About the only thing that i noticed is that I lose my focus when blinking and sometimes the "dot" gets fuzzy while staring at it, but less so after the blink. The fuzziness varies depending upon the length of time between the blinks.