The Veritas Society

Discussion Areas => Magick => Topic started by: XIII on December 03, 2011, 06:29:29 PM

Title: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: XIII on December 03, 2011, 06:29:29 PM
Please click here, and use logical reasoning. Thank you. (http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,19993.0.html)
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: ArcaTuthus on December 04, 2011, 11:06:19 AM
Not to mention the fact that the most minimal effort put into actual practice everyday would make most "attacks" completely flaccid. Anyone that might read this needs to know that this is one of the best forum communities around when dealing with the subject of metaphysics and parapsychology. The members are great, the mods are great.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Patanjali on December 04, 2011, 03:17:41 PM
I'm going to agree that the community is great, and the mods. They keep the place running smooth, and generally there aren't too many people that come up and cry wolf. It has been happening more lately. However, most of these people may be deludedcthrough one way or another, logic would dictate such, but this doesn't mean that people still aren't being attacked. Such as when people play with a witches board. Generally its a elemental that is called forth, if anything. However, the elemental can still be damaging none the less. Harm can easily still be done. I think a sticky should be titled " so you think your being attacked". Giving list of information to read prior to posting anything.

I believe in doing so would greatly reduce the posts of this type, at least to some degree. Although, the people that do post seem to be children, logic would dictate from there spelling and run on sentences. Anyways, i just think a thread made and stickied about this would work far better than linking. There are some older people on here, and even some younger people mature and intelligent enough to click a link. However, they are not the rule, they are the exception. Most people might look for a post, but even then is hoping for more then what will probably happen. Just a idea.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Violet on December 06, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
[...] but this doesn't mean that people still aren't being attacked. Such as when people play with a witches board. Generally its a elemental that is called forth, if anything. However, the elemental can still be damaging none the less. Harm can easily still be done. I think a sticky should be titled " so you think your being attacked". Giving list of information to read prior to posting anything.

While I agree that, technically, one can be attacked metaphysically, there's something else to keep in mind even when we're sure people are not deluding themselves. First, metaphysical energy is highly impressionable and does what you intend it to do. Second, those who seem to be suffering from metaphysical attack - even if we rule out the possibility of delusion - often deeply believe that they can be attacked during ritual X or Y. Thus, what happens is similar to what happens to the qi master who believes he should not practice qigong while sick - he believes his illness should get worse when practicing, he practices when ill, and - strangely enough - he becomes even more ill.

Food for thought.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: ArcaTuthus on December 06, 2011, 02:55:51 PM
[...] but this doesn't mean that people still aren't being attacked. Such as when people play with a witches board. Generally its a elemental that is called forth, if anything. However, the elemental can still be damaging none the less. Harm can easily still be done. I think a sticky should be titled " so you think your being attacked". Giving list of information to read prior to posting anything.

While I agree that, technically, one can be attacked metaphysically, there's something else to keep in mind even when we're sure people are not deluding themselves. First, metaphysical energy is highly impressionable and does what you intend it to do. Second, those who seem to be suffering from metaphysical attack - even if we rule out the possibility of delusion - often deeply believe that they can be attacked during ritual X or Y. Thus, what happens is similar to what happens to the qi master who believes he should not practice qigong while sick - he believes his illness should get worse when practicing, he practices when ill, and - strangely enough - he becomes even more ill.

Food for thought.

This is what I was referring to when I said that if one was being "attacked", and they were practicing meditations or basically any paradigm daily, and with diligence, most attacks would be rendered useless. One of the most prevalent types of attack is one where the fear of being attacked is what feeds the attack. It is almost completely psychological, and that is the 'subtle energy' feeding the attack. I have seen instances where someone will place random items like crows feathers, cat bones, vials of" blood(corn syrup and food coloring) in a persons house, or on their property, and this is the whole of the attack. The rest is Fear.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Searcher on December 14, 2011, 08:37:54 AM
And as the naive little lambs walked to the butchers block singing and dancing merrily believing that their paradigm and their belief system will protect them only to find their last acts on earth are to join the glue pot, dog food and be smothered in mint source.

Not every one cries wolf and to believe that it is not real is an insult to this paradigm because it makes a mockery of the rest of it.

Searcher - no longer under attack - sorted by other magicians

 :P
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: bgbleep on July 29, 2012, 05:54:25 PM
At little bit of trouble is probably if anything good for your growth. As it teaches you about the ebb and flow.

Spiritual reflexes will keep you out of most problems. And if you have found that experiences have stopped you from doing a practice then you have only to thank your instincts and the balance of nature for steering you away from true danger.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Akenu on July 31, 2012, 03:29:15 AM
@bgbleep: Congratulations for reviving old topic regarding story that was a bit different than described in this thread and giving a totally useless advice. Thank your instincts for your behavior ;-).
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: bgbleep on July 31, 2012, 09:09:27 PM
Before determining how i felt about your numerous insulting posts, I read your blog Akenu.

I'm not impressed by your poor attitude, insults, or immature approach of presenting yourself.
Dignity is a valuable thing in the world, and i see that you are only interested increasing your own by way of insulting others.

You speak as a person who knows much, but act like a child trying to prove his worth.

Its an easy task for a man to change the world through magic. But, learning to guard one's tongue is one of the biggest indicators of progress in life. If words are as powerful as you believe, i have only to see you must not credit their power to be of much influence since you care little for what you send forth.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Akenu on July 31, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
But, learning to guard one's tongue is one of the biggest indicators of progress in life.

That explains a lot, doesn't it? ;-) I will give you a hint in another thread.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Talbot on August 01, 2012, 06:04:07 PM

This is what I was referring to when I said that if one was being "attacked", and they were practicing meditations or basically any paradigm daily, and with diligence, most attacks would be rendered useless. One of the most prevalent types of attack is one where the fear of being attacked is what feeds the attack. It is almost completely psychological, and that is the 'subtle energy' feeding the attack. I have seen instances where someone will place random items like crows feathers, cat bones, vials of" blood(corn syrup and food coloring) in a persons house, or on their property, and this is the whole of the attack. The rest is Fear.

This is true because I did this to someone once.  Sorry if I didn't introduce myself, first post.  I read some Necronomicon to a guy and put some sand at his door.  There was no forethought, no planning and no spiritual aspect to the performance.  He used that as an excuse to spiral out of control and I never heard from him again.  I was young and dumb and I had a lot more ego than ethics at the time - I wouldn't do such a thing today.  I must admit, however, it did take care of a lot of problems he was causing (not that I was blameless) and I think everyone involved learned some strange lessons about human behavior.  Before anyone asks, no I don't own the Necronomicon, it was borrowed for the purpose and promptly returned. 
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Constructman on August 21, 2012, 09:27:36 PM
Except when the guy you're trying to trick is a hardcore atheist and anti-superstionist and believes you're a weirdo.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Akenu on August 22, 2012, 02:33:28 AM
Except when the guy you're trying to trick is a hardcore atheist and anti-superstionist and believes you're a weirdo.

Which shows either lack of talent or lack of imagination of said practitioner.
Point is not to wave around 'cursed' person's face while yelling "By power of the gray skull I curse thee". Point is to slowly and silently shape mind of the 'cursed' person and reality around him so he associates his problems with bad luck. By such practice he will hardly think you are a weirdo because he won't know you are actually causing something.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Searcher on August 24, 2012, 04:02:09 PM
I agree with Patanjali (#2) that this thread is of little use but to further personal agendas and segregate information to an extent that it is impossible for the outsider to know what is fact and what is fiction.

I therefore think the information here on veritas should be collated and presented as a sticky, after then allowing time for amendments and discussion be presented as some kind of ‘fact’ sticky that doesn’t allow comments.

Within this ‘fact sticky’ differentiation can be made between different types of attacks eg from psychological through placebo and on to metaphysical and demon. IMHO we should not be closed to such things because it is a part of Majick and to quote Akenu “By such practice he will hardly think you are a weirdo because he won't know you are actually causing something.” And Bubba “Even do it jokingly can have a subtle effect on their psyche. Mind magick folk, all those jedi mind tricks.”

Or to put it another way:
If you can believe that there is a hole in the top of your head which allows energy to move through why can’t you believe that marbles are fairy eggs? Classic! :eek:


Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: loveless on September 06, 2012, 06:15:30 AM
A person that actually thinks there is a physical hole in their head that allows some kind of nondescript "energy" to flow through is just a lunatic as a "novelist" who thinks marbles are fairy eggs... And if someone is really being attacked, in any form, they usually know how to defend themselves. I mean, who the F expends energy to target an unworthy target? We have much better things to do, and even psychological attacks takes time and energy, and if it is happening over the internet you can just denounce the troll and ignore him.

And finally, a sticky like that would not be useful at all. Someone that can, by himself, differentiate between a psychological, placebo and "magical" attack will probably already have done so. It would only increase the paranoia of people that wrongly believes that they are already being attack while it is all in their delusional heads...
 
To quote ArcaTuthus:

Not to mention the fact that the most minimal effort put into actual practice everyday would make most "attacks" completely flaccid.

cheers.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Searcher on September 06, 2012, 01:03:09 PM
So it is all about belief i.e. I believe I am therefore I am. How about if I believe he is…? What about believing that you can alter a flame by thinking? How do you denote an unworthy target and have you considered an individuals need to test? How do you know it takes time and effort – what if it was as simple as just a thought with intent? What if shielding is just a myth to give confidence? Can you shield with ultimate confidence?

Just as Bubba said: one mans reality is another’s delusion? 
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: loveless on September 07, 2012, 03:23:17 AM
I'm sorry to say this, but your questions sounds like little more than philosophical wankery...

I never said belief does anything... and the only thing I "believe" it does is no other than maybe psychological or psychosomatic afflictions on those that, lead by paranoia (or even worse, actual illness), believes they are being attacked.

There is no "I believe I am therefore I am", that's crap... I think I already posted here how little I think of actual belief, but here is the gist: I think very, very, little of it. I don't think there should be much space for belief in a scientific endeavor such as magic, or even psionics, maybe the only use would be to form a kind of placebo effect, but then the belief should be so strong it is not belief anymore, but delusion or fanaticism. And though we can generate such mind state, it is my opinion (oh the lack of words kill me) that it is dangerous and mostly unnecessary, unless in specific circumstances, and even then it is a maybe.

Individuals who need to test against a "live" target are probably fluffies or psychopaths, the first one does shit, the second one is rare enough (and probably incapable of forming bonds that would allow one to metaphysically attack someone from afar, maybe even incapable of magic, though still dangerous with his words online, but nothing "magical")...

And even if it was simple as a thought with intent, why would someone capable of doing so go after a little nothing? And yes, shielding is a myth, I never said anything about shielding.

cheers.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Searcher on September 07, 2012, 03:43:00 AM
Why is it philosophical wankery?

You don’t believe and I do. I may not believe in the Harry Potter type magic or the need for complex words and gestures but I have seen and done enough to know that I can believe in it.

My baggage revolves around Christianity, what’s yours?
 
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: loveless on September 07, 2012, 03:50:19 AM
Because it takes nowhere.

And thank any god you don't "believe in the Harry Potter type magic"... I would've turned troll mode on if you did =X

My baggage comes from african-brazilian magic, though I always preferred a more european approach.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Akenu on September 07, 2012, 04:45:02 AM
And thank any god you don't "believe in the Harry Potter type magic"... I would've turned troll mode on if you did =X
/me casts Crucio
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: loveless on September 07, 2012, 09:02:46 AM
I am fighting the urge to completely derail this topic and make it a HP roleplaying one :O
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Steve on September 07, 2012, 06:32:31 PM
Considering the topic is a year old and the people and events that the topic originally covered are quite past... maybe we could instead let it die? :) Or start a new thread with a clearer discussion topic/objective.

~Steve
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: MikeWho on October 10, 2012, 01:36:38 PM
I would like to mention that there has been a regular theme of ignorance towards those whom are actually under attack. Generally, if you are under attack, those whom have self-prescribed themselves qualified will often brush you off as overly imaginative or paranoid.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: kobok on October 10, 2012, 02:21:03 PM
I would like to mention that there has been a regular theme of ignorance towards those whom are actually under attack. Generally, if you are under attack, those whom have self-prescribed themselves qualified will often brush you off as overly imaginative or paranoid.

Most people I know who are qualified to defend against an attack and/or advise how to defend against an attack ask themselves one question when they hear someone else claim they are under attack:  "Why does the person think they are under attack?"  And it usually falls apart right there.  The vast majority of the time, the reason the person thinks they are under attack is not a sufficient justification for concluding an attack exists.  This is what you witness most of the time on these forums, which you are thinking is a dismissal.  But if the reasoning is faulty, then we have no reason to trust the conclusion that an attack exists.  This is not bias, or unjustified dismissal.  It is a reasoned analysis.

In the case that there IS a sufficient reason to suspect an attack might be happening, then it is worth exploring further.  While this is a significant minority of the cases, I have seen this very many times over the years.  The outcome, however, is that even when there is sufficient reason to suspect an attack might be happening, even the majority of THOSE times no real attack is going on.  (The most common source being that the person is actually causing their own problems.)  So even when there's sufficient reason to suspect an attack, experience shows that one should still avoid jumping to conclusions too rashly, and should proceed with a careful exploration of the explanations.  This is in fact an open-minded approach, when the problem we usually face in these interactions is that the person asking for help has already concluded that the attack is definitely real, and has closed their mind to the possibility that another explanation could be in play.

I've seen attacks.  They can actually happen.  Just like conspiracies are real and can happen.  But they're far more rare than the imaginative and/or paranoid people tend to think, so one must temper their assumptions about attacks with a careful assessment of their reasoning process, the evidence, and the situation.
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Steve on October 10, 2012, 10:17:06 PM
I would like to mention that there has been a regular theme of ignorance towards those whom are actually under attack. Generally, if you are under attack, those whom have self-prescribed themselves qualified will often brush you off as overly imaginative or paranoid.
Did you read the opening post (and the post that the opening post linked to)? This thread, and the prior thread, were not just about generic attacks. They were in response to a sort of "social event" that was occurring at the time, where certain people thought that the staff here at Veritas were psychically attacking them. Thus, the responses in this thread, at least, should be taken in the context of that year-ago set of events and beliefs about what was occurring (oh wow, that was only just last year. I thought it was longer ago than that).


Granted, I also do brush off a lot of generic claims of "I'm under attack" as a person being either psychologically or metaphysically self-destructive without realizing it, but since the majority of times the generic prescription for getting through either is the same for metaphysical attacks and for self-destruction (at least at the lower levels of ability where a person would still be capable of gaining access to help on their own), I've found it also doesn't matter whether I care or not about the difference between the two (I leave the caring to those who can/will lend a more direct hand to specific instances of real attack). So, that's my reasoning for why I brush off most claims of attack.

~Steve
Title: Re: To those of you crying 'wolf' about attacks;
Post by: Tradition on December 16, 2014, 10:46:51 AM
When I meet someone who is under attack, I simply listen as long as I can to everything they have to say, asking serious pointed questions. It usually becomes very apparent whether they delusional, lying or I can actually help them. Because, if they are delusional or lying, there is little chance I could help them, even if there is an energetic or astral problem.