Author Topic: The Falsehoods of Radical Chi Explained  (Read 108417 times)

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July 07, 2004, 02:12:15 PM
Reply #15

DownRodeo

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Quote from: Kendamu

Radki is useless and doesn't need to exist.


"Imagine that every person in the world is enlightened but you. They are all your teachers, each doing just the right things to help you learn perfect patience, perfect wisdom, perfect compassion"

^^ because Ken, it may not be as crap as you first presume, think of it this way, yes, it has no real effect in the same way that 'traditional qi systems' do, however lots of rad chi and 'new age' excercises maybe useful in one simple, proven, pshycological way. "Can you spell 'Placebo effect". Thus it has its uses in that sense, failing that, like the above quote it serves as a reminder that everyone and everything has a role to play in the cosmos.

Also, Ken, when has Kiajutsu ever been 'easy', Kiajustu, Kuji-kiri/-in are useless without good taijutsu and taisabaki, so that throws that out the window, unless you want to contadict Tanamure and Hatsumi?

Enlightenment:
no need to be so condesending, neh? (mind you i can't talk ^^)

 "If they never become interested in this path from their own curiosity (the path of Chi Kung and the martial arts), then how, praytell, how do you expect them to EVER find it if we are not willing to show them the proper way of doing it?:"

I hate to tell you, but our path is not the only path to take my friend, we must not be so dogmatic.
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers... and you've got to make it stop!"
Mario Savio

July 07, 2004, 06:32:17 PM
Reply #16

Enlightenment

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DownRodeo: agreed, however we are here to learn from one another, are we not? what purpose is there to not teach what is seemingly the right way, or at least for the time being looks like the right path (IMO we can never know ourselves), and instead allow them to linger on thinking of bullshit techniques that dont work, and develop stress within the practitioner (like VxinuyashaxV's technique on devloping power through anger and rage), it doesnt work..it has never been proven (to my knowledge) to ever work, so I stand firm on the belief that...if something works, use it; if it doesnt work, then have nothing to do with it, for it is false knowledge.

Forgive me for being an eclectric (spelling?), but I see no need to let them continue on using bullshit; unknowing that it is, infact bullshit, if we have so much that is NOT bullshit to teach them.

Be Well.
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July 07, 2004, 08:27:24 PM
Reply #17

HADOUKEN

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DownRodeo:

Kiaijutsu is not just a Bujinkan art.  The Bujinkan have their own Kiaijutsu, but you do not have to have good Bujinkan Taijutsu in order to Kiai well.  Saying that is calling every school of swordsmanship to date a bunch of liars and saying that the Scottish never yelled in anyone's faces for combat purposes.  So, yeah, I am going against what Soke said.  And I'm saying it as a former member of the Bujinkan Dojo.  Why don't you wrap your brain around that one for awhile?

As for Radki, you must not have been listening at all.  I helped make Radki.  I know what it is.  I know that its crap.  I'm not just pulling things out of my ass here.  Wanna see me just pull something out of my ass?  Look at Radki.  That's a giant piece of shit right there that collectively came out of about 3 or 4 people's asses in 1998 and 1999.  I was one of those 3 or 4 people.  You can't convince me of Radki having any truth to it.  That's like trying to pull the Immortality Ring scam on Alex Chiu.  It just doesn't work.
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July 08, 2004, 12:44:05 PM
Reply #18

DownRodeo

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Lol, point taken. (about ass/radiki).

As for kiajustu, unless its taught with proper understanding of posture,timing and movement, i think all that people will end up having, is a psychological edge (which is useful none the less). I have little doubt as to your experiences and abillities in the area of Kiajustu, I trust that you can do them and have experienced them, but i do doubt the methods in which you teach them, i for one think that they should be taught at a proper dojo, not over the internet. Do you think DD became proficient at energy work over the net? I think not...Maybe he gained further understanding of other methods, but he probably (sorry if im presuming loads of stuff DD, its for the sake of this argument :D ) attained proficiency with energy through 'Aikido' not 'internetdo', hence i doubt your teaching (on the net) would be of much use to anyone, at least in the area of Kiajutsu...Don't get me wrong, if you lived over here in the uk, i would be the first to jump up and learn Kiajutsu from yourself, personally, in fact i would consider it a great honour, seriosuly!

You of all people should know Rad Ki is full of s***, because it neglects all posture and timing, which is key not only in Budo, but also in taijiquan and aikido, hell it posture IS qi gong. Energy will simply not flow properly if a person is not taught exactly the right postures and kame (stances, for people other than ken). As you said before, energy does follow some sorts of rules in concern with the body, ie: about trying to pull in energy through your palms, and so on (i think it was you), this also apply's to Kiajutsu. Hence to me Kia's are just 'scary's shouts' unless one has a strong grasp of taisabaki, body conditioning, timing and posture, not matter what art you do, and i think unless others see yourself and DD in motion they just won't 'get it'.

The same goes for the 'online' teaching of Kiajustu, if you made a video though, with diagrams of the meridians and correct postures with explanations and the like, perhaps , no I WOULD, EAT MY WORDS!  :eek: The area of Kiajustu is too large, and no matter what you say it is NOT simple, (unless you want to do it like an ass) it needs a comprehensive guide considering all factors, which i beleive YOU and other Veritas staff are well capable of devising. I guess its wether or not you can be bothered to pull something of worth out of your ass instead, neh?  :D  

Now that is something i beleive would benifit people no end Ken (in my humble (and most probably useless) opinion).

ps. im interested as to why you are a 'former' Bujinkan member? (Im no Bujinkan member either, i learn from a Bujinkan trained instructor, but we pledge no allegiance to it officially, as we also learn from the Genbukan as well). How long did you do it for and so on....?

*edit* err.... sorry to go off topic (awaits bannage)
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers... and you've got to make it stop!"
Mario Savio

July 08, 2004, 10:08:51 PM
Reply #19

HADOUKEN

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I didn't learn Kiaijutsu over the internet.  I wrote the damn articles that people use to learn it over the internet.  Posture, timing, etc. are mentioned all the time when I bring up advice about Kiaijutsu and I believe they are also mentioned in the articles.

You're treating me like I've never been to a dojo before.  I've defended my and other people's lives before on several occasions.  Just last week I had to defend myself from a guy who was stupid enough to have a grudge from two years ago.  Was Kiaijutsu involved in how I beat him?  Yes!  It always is.  Even if you're not yelling, the Kiai is still there.

If I were as much of a fraud and/or newbie as you think I am to be, I wouldn't be alive right now.  I'd be about 6 feet in the ground with a nice puncture wound in a vital spot.

As for teaching Kiaijutsu online, I only hope to appeal to martial artists who want to expand on that "yelling thing my sensei says to do in forms."  People who know nothing about anything are welcome to try learning from my articles, but they're not my target audience.
Develop mind and body to enhance the spirit.

July 11, 2004, 03:33:30 PM
Reply #20

DownRodeo

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Ken, i was not being sacastic, i believe you know what your talking about, i can tell from the way you present your knowledge and i can also tell that it has been well researched, my point was that i thought people (without real life experience in these matters) wouldn't be able to take much from your articles, as i said before i would be honoured to learn from you, in person. I would not mock someone online i did not know, that would be stupid of me, i only mock people that I KNOW deserve it!  :D

If i didn't think you had even been in a dojo (and were'nt a proficient martial artist) i wouldn't be wasting my time here replying to you. I apologise for over-looking what you had written about posture and timing in your articles, but i still beleive that they are difficult to teach over the net and i maintain that there still should be more emphasis on them.
"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies on the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers... and you've got to make it stop!"
Mario Savio

July 12, 2004, 01:48:34 PM
Reply #21

HADOUKEN

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Develop mind and body to enhance the spirit.

July 21, 2004, 11:40:48 PM
Reply #22

scorpions_hellfire

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I dont know a lot about this site or about chi and martial arts but i will be looking and Kendamus' articles with great interest.
Scorpions_hellfire

July 31, 2004, 07:51:09 AM
Reply #23

BlacK

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Uh, oops. I read page one only and wrote this reply. It moved on since then, but to go back to the main point (Since I aint writing this much for nothin...)

Sorry that its now totally off-topic. Read it if you care. :P

From my experience, trying to teach Rad-Ki practitioners doesnt help. We can say all we like that they arent going to achive anything, and there are better ways, and they are missing the point, but in the end they (The average Rad-Ki practitioner, as well described by Mysticus) will simply not listen. It verges on religious, the strength of beliefe they seem to have in thier 'system' of energy work. Would you tell a Christian that he was wrong, if you KNEW for certain that he was? And if you did, would he listen?

I think that in general, it would be a near impossible task to go around educating the entire Rad-Ki community, and a waste of time. Use this time to improve your own skills and gain knowledge, then when the members of the Rad-Ki community become disillusioned with thier 'art' and move on, you are in a better position to help them grow into a better energy practitioner.

Mysticus, if someone had told you, all those years back, that what you were doing isnt going to get you anywhere, would ou have accepted thier advice? And would it really have helped? Dont you think its better you found out yourself, and are now better suited to aiding other such individuals?

In conclusion, I believe that the Rad-Ki community is best left alone. Think of it as a nursery, or play-group for the babies of the OEC if you will. They learn nothing much of worth, but it generally teaches them how to act and learn in such communities, so they will learn better when they get to some real information.
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July 31, 2004, 09:20:52 AM
Reply #24

Koujiryuu

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"I think that in general, it would be a near impossible task to go around educating the entire Rad-Ki community, and a waste of time. Use this time to improve your own skills and gain knowledge, then when the members of the Rad-Ki community become disillusioned with thier 'art' and move on, you are in a better position to help them grow into a better energy practitioner."

The thing is, because of the efforts of Kendamu, Mystickal, Mad Daoist, Donjitsu, and myself over a period of 5 years, Radki is pretty much nonexistant. I know of no 'radki' sites with over 30 members active. Compare this to 2000-2001, when there were multiple sites with over 300 members each.

Even Halo's Hideout went traditional (or as close to it as they could get :/), and that was the absolute pinnacle of lunacy. Radki basically doesn't exist anymore, for good reason. If there are anymore such sites, I'm sure myself and Kendamu will root them out and turn them traditional.

As has been stated previously, radki has been discredited. Anyone who still practices it must be kidding themselves...back when MisteryShadow's manual was the only thing around on 'Combat Ki', and we didn't know any better, it was excusable. Those in the know seeked out reeducation in qigong, taiji, wing chun, aikido, etc. With the completion of my own works in the articles section, and the 'new' methods on Ki Teachings, there is no excuse to continue such practices..
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August 20, 2004, 02:58:39 PM
Reply #25

HADOUKEN

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Kouji's right.  There is no excuse anymore.  That, and Radki is even worse than it was back 5 years ago when I was practicing it.  At least back then we had breath methods to go along with my wild visualizations and Chi Blasts that later evolved into Kiaijutsu.
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October 15, 2004, 09:18:01 PM
Reply #26

cryonics

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i think before learning the power up technique you should learn the grounding technique (so your Qi dosent burn out)
earth and fire are strong but together they are stronger

October 15, 2004, 11:21:29 PM
Reply #27

Koujiryuu

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Did you even read this thread in it's entirety? There is no such thing as a "power up". Grounding is a psionic technique, not a qigong technique.
 
I think you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
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October 31, 2004, 11:46:13 PM
Reply #28

ThiefDeath

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I started out with radki too.  When I first started researching ki in the summer of 2001, almost every place I went to was a radki site with at least 100 active members.  As time moved on, however, these communities became less and less active.  At the summer of 2002 there were significantly less posts in these communities.  By the summer of 2003 most radki sites were practically dead.  You were lucky if you saw one update or post in 2 month period.  Now, in year 2004, radki is just a joke.  Most radki sites are completely dead if not removed.  Any remaining radki community is crawling to a slow and painful death.

Radki was a fad, propagated by a few OEC members testing out a hybrid style of psionics and DBZ, and sustained by the ongoing popularity of the recently dubbed anime DBZ.  Now, in 2004, DBZ is barely shown on television anymore, its popularity is dropping, people are realizing radki doesnít work, and radki is slowly dropping out of existence.  The FAD is over.

There is no real need to fight radkiism.  Radki communities are dead, unsupported, and fairly bastardized.  Their skeleton of support has been stripped and they are crumbling fast.  Any more attacks on radki communities are just beating a dead horse.

People will go to these sites, realize they are dead, and leave.  If they donít, they will learn eventually.  If they try practicing the techniques, they will learn eventually that they donít work and will either drop out, meaning that they werenít really meant for energy work in the first place, or will start researching more.  Even the community leaders, which probably know darn well already that radki doesnít work, will convert over to more traditional methods.

In the end, everyone will find their way to the active, credible portions of the OEC.  There is no need to force this on of people.  Let them have the experience of going to a website and realizing itís dead.  Let them have the experience of reading bullshit and finding out it doesnít work.  It is a way of learning valuable life lessons such as recognizing bullshit and fraud and learning when your approach to a situation should be altered.  People will not only find their way to the correct portions of the OEC but will have learned how to analyze information for themselves and think maturely as well.
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[23:48] <DanielH> You have a different way of thinking (which is wrong)

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November 21, 2004, 05:25:53 AM
Reply #29

TwilightSociety

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Firstly Radical Ki is nothing like any form of internal martail arts or any form of energy arts. It's a name given to people who try to do things from a cartoon. You cannot justify it or say that there close to real techniques so there may be some truth to it because it's misleading.

The thing that thiefdeath said about allowing them to go an experiance it themselfs is not a good idea. From my years of being online, I have helped hundreds of people. Answering questions, giving advice, offering exercises and techniques. The problem many people have is that they start off with Radical Ki, they learn bad habits. They focus on physical sensations which is not energy. They get a belief system into there mind, which only they can work around. And really it screws them up because unless they are really willing to learn, they will train to a point that they cannot progress. That is why so many people online talk about ki balls, there experiances at that level and so on. The reason they talk about this stuff is becasue they have picked many bad habits up which are very hard to lose and it's halted any real progression.

Thanks

Simon