Author Topic: My oh my we are a sad little place  (Read 2170 times)

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December 03, 2017, 12:30:09 PM
Reply #60

MikeWho

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If I've decided to quit practicing magic due to my own personal experiences, then so be it. It invalidates nothing I've said. At least I know that it's real. Too real.

I'm certain that some people have delusions while practicing magic. I'd even argue that with anything involving suggestion, self-hypnosis and meditation will also be a door to opening delusions of grandeur or even insanity. The problem is that we often times are so wrapped up in seeing some sort of effect that we miss everything that is happening around us. The pinwheel doesn't move, and so magic doesn't work. However, disease has crept upon your family and it's shocking. The delusion isn't magic, the delusion is that your lack of awareness of what's going on around you.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 01:33:57 PM by MikeWho »

December 04, 2017, 01:16:47 AM
Reply #61

Akenu

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I'm quite glad I failed at lying to myself. Wish a bunch of other morons would do the same. Maybe we'd move past superstitious wishful thinking. This shit doesn't exist at all. No amount of pseudo science will validate occult stupidity. It's about the most pathetic thing in to world to actually take this crap serious. It really is a shame I wasted so much of my life being apart of it. Bunch of fucked up and useless people in the occult. Nothing but delusional human garbage. I'd say that if you believe in this crap you're an idiot. Time to grow up folks, quite the magical thinking and get own with your life.

The worst thing about the occult communities is the circle jerk they all engage in. Trying to validate empty beliefs, giving their sorry lives some false meaning. Sad, truly sad.


Hellblazer, if you remember, I was always against pseudo-scientific terms in occultism, it is BS, it looks stupid and it makes us look stupid. But I also hate your current behavior, simply because it might mean that Rayn was right.


If you remember, I have always said that anyone can learn Magick, we all have that gift. On the other side, Rayn's theory always was that only individuals gifted in Magick can learn it and now you are playing into his cards.


As for the magical thinking, I know about that, I knew about it for years prior to my start in occultism, I do have some psychology background. I don't get how attaining such information would make you totally invalidate all your prior experiences. It might actually mean that you just failed to have a journal, or, which is worse, you chased just fairy dust all those years...


@Rayn: To be more specific, I have started with Enochian Magick, dabbled a little bit into Hermeticism and Qabbalah, as well and finally landed in Chaos Magick.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 01:54:26 AM by Akenu »

December 04, 2017, 04:31:03 AM
Reply #62

Rayn

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If you remember, I have always said that anyone can learn Magick, we all have that gift. On the other side, Rayn's theory always was that only individuals gifted in Magick can learn it and now you are playing into his cards.

Please do not misrepresent me. I am not sure how I fit into this argument. Technically, I agree with a lot of what HellBlazer is saying, mind you. I am an atheist and I don't believe in magical cosmologies. Furthermore, I don't believe parapsychology presents a convincing objective case. I believe in psi because I am biased due to my experiences. As a result, this board holds nothing for me. I lurk out of boredom. I am responding because I don't like being misrepresented. You believe in magic and I do not. I have no desire to convince you it does not exists, because I am not invested in your personal life. This means there is no point debating things like this. I don't get why you care, to be frank. You believe in magic where it is a big part of your life. Others don't. Get over it.

Theoretically, magic is ambiguous in that it is predicated based on cultural concepts which are largely subjective. To say it differently, what magic is varies from culture to culture; therefore, one cannot establish a consistent definition, and because of this, one cannot establish a theory. This implies that magic has no theory, and because of this, one cannot make precise deductions concerning this. Instead, one has different paradigms concerning magic that are largely subjective and conventional per those cultures.

Precision is pretty much the ability to hit a value, or close to a value, consistently. This is not to be confused with accuracy. Due to the subjective nature of the definition of magic, this implies that one cannot consistently get close to a value; therefore, one cannot deduce anything precisely. This means I cannot make the deduction that only those gifted in magic can learn it, because I cannot precisely define what magic is. Nor can you.

Logically, this also implies that arguments about magic are a wastes of time, because no one can be right. The inability to objectively define what magic is sort of makes it not possible to determine who is right about it. I don't care about magic nor do I care about debates concerning it.

Here is my issue. If you have a pedagogy where the claim is that it will develop psychic abilities, then there should be statistics concerning that. When you deal with induction, particular cases are not enough; rather, you have to show that this thing is likely to work for most people, abstractly, who try this system. You could call that your population. In order to show that for your population, you would need a representative sample and statistics from that sample. You would then need to analyze this data. The issue is not whether or not psychic abilities can be learned for those hypothesis; rather, the issue is whether or not a particular system can teach said abilities. It is an issue with education more than anything, for if a person has a natural aptitude, but the pedagogy was not effective, it would not really develop their abilities regardless. A person who is good with Mathematics still needs to be educated properly, regardless.

In this thread, it seems to be assumed that practicing certain schools of thought of techniques yields results; therefore, HellBlazer has been practicing things wrong or not sticking with things, but no one in this thread really has the statistics to back that claim up. I had the same conversation with kobok about a month ago concerning Dynamic Psi, I think, where he pretty much said with online teaching you have limitations due to operational definitions, a lack of that many teachers making analysis hard, and the inability to control things how he would like where he agreed that there needed to be more testing.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 04:39:46 AM by Rayn »

December 04, 2017, 04:39:47 AM
Reply #63

Hellblazer

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So what do you want of me Akenu?