Author Topic: I found spiritual illumination in the psych ward.  (Read 6672 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

March 04, 2015, 09:43:19 PM
Reply #15

TheAghora

  • A Veritas Regular

  • Offline
  • **

  • 69
  • Karma:
    4
    • View Profile
Alright, so I'm not saying you are right or wrong here, though lets play the devils advocate here for a moment. First, with anything metaphysical you should ask yourself what this could be that is mundane first, then jumping to it being metaphysical and yourself being an enlightened being. What could this be? I know that people who are Schizophrenic have similar issues when off of there medication or not on medication in the first place, have you thought of this? I know of a man who thought that demons spoke with him. Being a magician, I have had many encounters with entities, and I can tell you that they don't generally go bothering people for no reason. Saying that Lucifer, or any higher level entity would be communicating with you, what makes you think this? Simply because you don't believe yourself to be deceitful enough to make this type of music? People are capable of far more then they realize. Part of magic, of wearing robes, of chanting, of doing many of the dogma based efforts is based on developing the phyco-paump (how ever you spell it).You yourself are capable of much more then you think.

My opinion? You should see a doctor. I'm not trying to be an ass, or a douche; I'm trying to be a friend. Do you know how difficult it is to develop the ability to just see or hear metaphysical entities? It's not something that just happens (usually, for the majority of people it doesn't). I would recommend that you seek help. Again, please don't think of this as being an asshole, I don't intend it to. Rayn was correct, just no one wants to say anything about it. I've met people who have had similar things happen to them, please don't go down the same road. Make a new path for yourself. This path is all about bettering yourself, be it the RHP or the LHP, it's all about self improvement. If and when you do seek help and I was wrong, come back here and let me know I was wrong, I will accept that.

March 05, 2015, 10:56:30 AM
Reply #16

attempting

  • A Veritas Regular

  • Offline
  • **

  • 60
  • Karma:
    1
    • View Profile
What I meant by illuminated was awakened. I did feel the sensation of kundalini rise. but, there is still garbage in my mind. The only reason i believe a higher intellegence contacted me, is because the one that seemed divine saw into the future or manipulated it, 5 times. and i've confirmed afterwards that these things happened. and when a "devil" sang to me, it really was beyond my natural ability to write.

March 07, 2015, 06:56:13 PM
Reply #17

Steve

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3685
  • Karma:
    139
    • View Profile
Well, say that attempting is still just hallucinating, Rayn: Can you do anything to help him/her? You know, other than saying "go see a doctor" no matter what happens to him? Seriously. What kind of change would he have to go through before you'd accept that he's doing better and doesn't need to see a doctor anymore? Or is that all that you're going to say regardless of what happens to him: "you're unwell, attempting. Go see a doctor." Oh wait, he did see a doctor. Went to the psych ward and everything. And then they released him.

Cause regardless of whether he is or not, the things he's saying are a heck of a lot healthier than what he was saying before. Even if he is still hallucinating, he's doing better.

But then, as he mentioned, what about the knowledge of things to-be-said before they were said?

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

March 07, 2015, 08:06:44 PM
Reply #18

Merlin

  • A Familiar Feature

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 119
  • Karma:
    10
    • View Profile
Well, say that attempting is still just hallucinating, Rayn: Can you do anything to help him/her? You know, other than saying "go see a doctor" no matter what happens to him? Seriously. What kind of change would he have to go through before you'd accept that he's doing better and doesn't need to see a doctor anymore? Or is that all that you're going to say regardless of what happens to him: "you're unwell, attempting. Go see a doctor." Oh wait, he did see a doctor. Went to the psych ward and everything. And then they released him.

Cause regardless of whether he is or not, the things he's saying are a heck of a lot healthier than what he was saying before. Even if he is still hallucinating, he's doing better.

But then, as he mentioned, what about the knowledge of things to-be-said before they were said?

~Steve

I really admire your outlook—it shows a lot more maturity and compassion than I was able to muster.

I assume the prescient information could be hallucination too. I'm not aware of the limits of hallucinations, so it seems reasonable that just about anything could be fabricated.
"Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself" -George Bernard Shaw

March 07, 2015, 09:38:13 PM
Reply #19

TheAghora

  • A Veritas Regular

  • Offline
  • **

  • 69
  • Karma:
    4
    • View Profile
This really is the big problem with the metaphysical practices all together. You can be written off as have a mental condition, even though you may indeed be having something magical happen. Or, even if people see something magical happen, nearly everything can be duplicated through trickery and illusions now. I personally do think he needs more help, and not from all of what he's saying. There are simply some things that stand out to me that don't sound right, not that he's lying. With mental conditions it's very hard to treat in a week, or even a year. It's something you do for your whole life, usually do to an imbalance of something within your mind. A pill wont fix it unless if you keep taking said medication, and it takes a lot of time to figure out what works good for that person, as everyones chemistry to what will work for them is slightly different; which is why the science of the kind is as much an Art as it is a Science.

Many of the things he states he would be capable of, other things I don't think so. Even some of the things he may be capable of doing, I don't think he's put the time or training it to do them. I don't know the OP, though judging from his typing and his mentality I assume that he's in his teens some where (not meaning this in a rude way, I apologize if I'm wrong or if it is rude). What it comes down to, is if he believes it. The movie the Matrix explained it the best. If it feels real, looks real, smells real, what makes it not real? If it is real to him it is very much alive in his reality, even if it isn't in our own (his Microcosm). If he thinks he needs help, then he should seek it if not, then let it be. Though about the music, you are more capable then what you believe, everyone is. I've known people that claimed that could never kill someone, never hurt someone, and they lived up to it. Until a situation came that was life threatening and they proved to be otherwise. We are all capable of far more then we chose to show, I think.

March 09, 2015, 09:22:48 AM
Reply #20

Steve

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3685
  • Karma:
    139
    • View Profile
I assume the prescient information could be hallucination too.
Yes, there's two situations that I can think of where hallucinations would seem like presentience.

The first is that the insane person hallucinates another person's words in their mind and then hallucinates the other person's words from their lips. In other words, the insane person first thinks that they received a message telepathically and then hallucinate the actual words.

The second is that the person first hears actual words come from another person's mouth and then the insane person's brain creates a time lapsed memory of those words and places the created memory before the real memory, thus making it seem to the insane person as though they heard the words in their mind first and then the person spoke it whereas in reality the opposite happened.

However.

Quote from: Merlin
I'm not aware of the limits of hallucinations, so it seems reasonable that just about anything could be fabricated.
How do you know that any of the words you hear in your day to day life are not hallucinated? How do you know that any of the metaphysical experiences you've had aren't just hallucinated? Hallucinations can indeed take on any form, so if we were to take this question to its philosophical limits then we would find ourselves in the "brain in a jar" or "Descartes' demon" scenarios, even for perfectly sane people.

So rather than assuming either insanity or sanity, one should attempt to gather information and try to determine which is more likely (while also noting the possibility that it could be a mix of the two) given how the information plays with external reality, and using a certain criterion for "is it meaningfully useful?". For instance, if I developed telepathy only to the point where I could hear someone else's thoughts literally one second before they spoke them, and that was the full extent of my telepathic ability, then it would be "meaningfully useless" in that I could not use it to any substantial gain. In the same sense, if an insane person is hallucinating voices then they would be unable to meaningfully use that information. So in that regard, there's little distinction between real metaphysical ability and mere hallucination.

The important difference is that metaphysical ability can be developed in such a way as to be both verifiable and used to the benefit of the practitioner. Hallucinations, on the other hand, will never produce verifiable results and will rarely (if ever) benefit the person hallucinating; though if I'm wrong and a person CAN figure out a way to use their hallucinations to their benefit, then hooray for them because they're doing just as well as if they developed real metaphysical ability and used it for their benefit. If a person is so far gone into hallucinations that they cannot meaningfully distinguish between hallucinating metaphysical ability versus developing real metaphysical abilities, to the point where their brain provides false information so that it can pretend like it is performing metaphysics and/or so that it can pretend like it is benefiting the "practitioner", then all of this discussion is pretty much moot anyways.

EDIT: Oh, and one other meaningful difference between metaphysical ability and hallucinations is that you have to spend time developing metaphysical abilities, whereas people generally just kind of slowly fall further and further into dementia without having to do anything and in fact would have to do something in order to fight off the effects of dementia. Taking into account spontaneous enlightenment (or spontaneous advancement) that sometimes occurs, if a person does not put in effort over time and yet supposedly continually develops over time and yet is unable to put their "abilities" to meaningful use, then it can generally be easily determined to be hallucination rather than metaphysical development.

In attempting's case for this thread, as an example: he went through a spontaneous experience that is somewhat difficult to distinguish between real metaphysical advancement versus mere hallucination (because different portions of the description that he gave of the event allow for both possibilities), but time will likely tell the difference quite well.

~Steve
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 09:36:35 AM by Steve »
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

March 10, 2015, 05:31:15 AM
Reply #21

Ekstatikos

  • Veritas Furniture

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 411
  • Karma:
    20
  • Personal Text
    "It was ME! I was the turkey all along...!"
    • View Profile
Oh, and one other meaningful difference between metaphysical ability and hallucinations is that you have to spend time developing metaphysical abilities, whereas people generally just kind of slowly fall further and further into dementia without having to do anything and in fact would have to do something in order to fight off the effects of dementia. Taking into account spontaneous enlightenment (or spontaneous advancement) that sometimes occurs, if a person does not put in effort over time and yet supposedly continually develops over time and yet is unable to put their "abilities" to meaningful use, then it can generally be easily determined to be hallucination rather than metaphysical development.

...he went through a spontaneous experience that is somewhat difficult to distinguish between real metaphysical advancement versus mere hallucination (because different portions of the description that he gave of the event allow for both possibilities), but time will likely tell the difference quite well.

It could very well be both, and that is my own assessment. Given that he was actually practising a certain meditation at the time, the event is not entirely 'spontaneous'. The perceived impact of the event however, is likely an amplification of the mind of some minor, albeit real, spiritual effects from the practice. This is a well known phenomenon, where the practitioner experiences her initial success in meditation as a momentous spiritual achievement. As the energies calm down and become more controlled this generally fades.

It is always good to seek medical advice, so it is good that you checked yourself in, Attempting. As for the phenomena, as I've said to you in private, use them as momentum to solidify your practice routine, and do not be discouraged if these experiences fade with time - for if you are keeping a good routine, that will be nothing more than an indication that you are grounding and controlling the energies associated with the practices better. We tend to make more of spiritual experiences than they are, especially in the beginning - at the very least though, they can be good indications (under the supervision of a skilled teacher), that you are heading in the right direction, and as such they will motivate and uplift you, and keep you going in times when little else seems to be going right.

God Bless.
~ Io Daimon Eriounes Theon ~

"Success is thy proof: argue not; convert not; talk not over much!" ~ Aleister Crowley, Liber AL vel Legis

To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be Silent, and To Liberate

March 10, 2015, 08:27:41 AM
Reply #22

attempting

  • A Veritas Regular

  • Offline
  • **

  • 60
  • Karma:
    1
    • View Profile
My memory has never "glitched" in the past inserting voices in my mind "before" "after" people have said things to me. I've confirmed with several people that they did say what they said after I knew it was coming. I'm not presentient, because is was more like a transmission from the beyond, and really out of my control. If my mental illness gets worse rather then better and I cannot continue my spiritual goals, I would most likely take myself out of the picture so I could find the path again with a clean state. I'm not saying I'm suicidal, but if my mind starts to fail me and I can't come back, its lights out for me.