Author Topic: What if there is no god?  (Read 19322 times)

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July 07, 2014, 03:23:40 PM
Reply #15

supadude

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It didn't help me that my father lied to me for over ten years with him proclaiming god jad spoke to him off and on, leading my whole family to homelessness me dropping out.of high school and becoming transient on some religious crusade around the country until i finally realised that he was simply suffering from self delusion. He has since apologised for his actions but a simple apology won't suffice to me for manipulation on that level. For six years i traveled with them sometimes to go my own way for a year or so, and when that house of cards came crashing down, so did my entire religion, my way of life, my meaning and purpose was gone with nothing left except what i am and what i have done.
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July 07, 2014, 05:03:06 PM
Reply #16

supadude

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Then pick yourself up, quit your whining, and get over it. You think your the only one with a sob story? I've had a craptastic life myself, Hell I just survived the worst three years of my life recently. How and why is beyond me, but I did. I had motivation, I had purpose because I chose to have a purpose. So chose to have a purpose. To be honest I think magick got me through that, although I didn't really train I was casting my will and acting on it. Sorry to be a bit harsh with you, but this kind of stuff isn't new to me. I've read and heard it a million and one times. Life is what you make of it, dwelling in the past keeps you there. Learning from it moves you forward.


No offense taken. And i could care less for your sympathy or anyone else's. I just need to tell someone. And that was only the tip of the iceburg regarding my issues and problems. I present you this information because it is relevant to the topic. And just because it has been said before does not mean that i have no right to say it myself. And by the way i quit my whining years ago, you might not realise it but you are talking with a grown man.
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July 07, 2014, 05:07:50 PM
Reply #17

supadude

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  Its not like i don't try hellblazer. I just have this funny way of reasoning my way into depressive thoughts then reasoning my way out in a vicious cycle.

Consider this thread me thinking out loud, there is just too much running through my head and i need a place for it all.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 05:13:04 PM by supadude »
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July 07, 2014, 06:09:32 PM
Reply #18

Shinichi

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The nature of god is usually a deeply personal and subjective thing. I could offer a lot of opinions on it, but I suppose I could more simply say that my view of Monad is Nature. Not in the limited "mother nature" context, but in a more "the universe has a natural flow" context. Basic analysis of the physical evolution of nature seems to agree with this context, because of the cycles, evolution, and various other things. A forest seems chaotic until the science behind it is understood, and then its growth can be analyzed and even predicted. As below, so above.

Such ideology isn't really that different from the chaos views that have been discussed here, except that I feel there to be a certain flow within the chaos.

And as for singular purpose. Well, let me just address that as simply as I can. I very strongly believe in fate, and as my understanding of this concept and my working with it has deepened over the years, my belief in this has only grown. It's a rather specific topic that is, in my opinion, very largely misunderstood.

Now, within this idea of fate, which is itself completely independent of any deity (for in most mythologies, even the gods are bound by fate), there is no such thing as "singular purpose." There may certainly be specific things that one should achieve in a given life, but there is never just one of those things. When I practiced divination to the point of obsession, I learned a lot about my own fate, my own "purpose," as well as those of others. Not once did I ever observe, in anyone's fate, a "singular" purpose. Life is just life. Everyone has things they are good at naturally, things they should do. Some people are great parents, some people are great martial artists, some people are great magicians, some people are great teachers, some people suck at teaching but are great researchers. Doing those things which one is good at naturally usually fulfills ones sense of purpose.

Truly, it is that simple. You do not need religion or a deity to give you purpose, because really, they can't. Your purpose is yours to discover, or to create. Your life is yours to live.

One of my favorite quotes from Thomas Jefferson comes from when he spoke against the concept of Divine Salvation: "Every mans salvation is in his own hands."

No god is responsible for your fate, for your purpose, for your life, nor anything else that is yours. Regardless of theology, everyone is ultimately responsible for themselves.



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July 07, 2014, 09:32:10 PM
Reply #19

Mind_Bender

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Mind Bender; i don't see the correlation of athena being an aspect of chaos to your definition of angels.  Are you saying Athena would be like a ray of your own light?

Not quite. She's not a servitor I constructed but an already established archetype that I commune with and admire.

Think of it this way;

Chaos = Yahweh.
Greek Gods (Athena) = Angels

Think of Yahweh as the Sun and Angels as solar flares.
Think of Chaos like the Cosmos and Gods as Planets.
There is the One Big Thing and Other Small Things.

Or,

Within Qabalistic Myth, Yahweh (maybe it's Ain Soph Aur) was First and is Last, the Angels reside between those temporal spheres.
In the case of Greek Mythology, Khaos was First and is Last, and the Gods reside between those temporal spheres.

Athena is simply an extension in a structured and functional conscious form stemming from an abstract void.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 09:36:26 PM by Mind_Bender »
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

July 08, 2014, 01:31:32 AM
Reply #20

Enchia

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For six years i traveled with them sometimes to go my own way for a year or so, and when that house of cards came crashing down, so did my entire religion, my way of life, my meaning and purpose was gone with nothing left except what i am and what i have done.

I'll pick it up from here. It seems like that because of these circumstances you where left in a void, so to speak. Perhaps you could try and find something new that fits your new position. So I would advise to start reading all sort of sources on theology, philosophy, literature and such to get inspired again. What might also be very helpful is to rephrase the question from "What is the purpose of life" to " what is my purpose to my life". This can be a very exciting and trilling journey and also a bit scary if you don't find what you are looking for right away. But as said a wellspring of fresh ideas might help you on you journey so go read, visit seminars, talk to people, visit veritas chatroom or just pm individual members and see what you find and remember that Rome wasn't build in one day.

July 08, 2014, 12:13:44 PM
Reply #21

supadude

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Rayn; Really that's what i have always done as well. For me its like losing the will to even do so because i become consumned by my own mind.
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July 08, 2014, 03:36:41 PM
Reply #22

Ekstatikos

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i become consumned by my own mind.

Is there anything you do that stops this? The mind can be naturally depressive, and tends to attract negative emotions along with its downward trajectory, which can very quickly spiral out of control. If you have any way of noticing when this starts happening and stopping it or reversing it, you should hone that ability at every possible opportunity.

As for the God thing, I'll agree with Enchia. Read philosophy, mythology, anything inspiring, and look within yourself to find your own way again, something that stirs your soul. It doesn't have to be God - it just needs to be an idea powerful enough to break the momentum of ennui/weltschmerz/aporia.

Best of luck to you, please keep us updated.
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July 08, 2014, 06:29:37 PM
Reply #23

supadude

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 Estatikos; Its a result of deep introspection. Ive been considering working on my astral progection and looking into the ether for the answers i seek.
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July 14, 2014, 06:08:40 AM
Reply #24

Ekstatikos

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Happy birthday today supa, and many happy returns! I hope everything is still going well?

Btw, it is said that doing some extra spiritual work on your birthday is a great boon, since it can set a precedent for the coming year, so work hard ok? ^^

Enjoy!
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July 14, 2014, 10:15:22 AM
Reply #25

kobok

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tried as have before no christian or pagan or other god has decided.that i am important enough to talk to.

That would presume God has a very small attention span, which I don't think is a warranted premise.  I think the problem most people face is being too loud and mentally assertive to hear anything.  I think God is quite capable of being loud and assertive, but chooses not to be to preserve our free will.  As a result one can't talk to God very well in the midst of asserting our own impressions and expectations of God.  This is ridiculously easy to screw up.

Sure, i say that in slim hopes that i can piss it off enough to do something, anything.

If a very young child while upset says "I don't like you!" to a parent, no emotionally healthy parent will take that very personally.  Surely God is a little more patient and emotionally healthy than a typical parent.  And to God we are all very young.

On the one hand if there is a god and i do have a purpose i would feel useless if it was mundane and if it wasn't i would be after i had carried it out. On the other hand if there is no god and i have no purpose and just popped into existence then it seems i truely am useless and my lackluster achievements of the mundane are all i have and i don't have much for a life.

I think you've internalized the Hollywood version of "destiny" and "purpose" which is designed to fit into compact 2 hour movies, or other finite stories with solid conclusions.  This makes sense when you are trying to make a story for entertainment with a beginning, middle, and end.  However this notion is incompatible with the sort of purpose which would inspire one to create a bunch of immortal souls.

In other words, you cannot "complete" your purpose, because it is not so trivial as that found in a story.  I'll leave you to think about the broader category of purposes creation of an immortal soul implies.

I'm an overnight cook at a mcdonalds for fucks sake.

Hahah.  Well that explains all the angst about God!  Working at McDonalds for too long has to be pretty soul-crushing.  You have my sympathies for that one.

It didn't help me that my father lied to me for over ten years with him proclaiming god jad spoke to him off and on, leading my whole family to homelessness me dropping out.of high school and becoming transient on some religious crusade around the country until i finally realised that he was simply suffering from self delusion. He has since apologised for his actions but a simple apology won't suffice to me for manipulation on that level. For six years i traveled with them sometimes to go my own way for a year or so, and when that house of cards came crashing down, so did my entire religion, my way of life, my meaning and purpose was gone with nothing left except what i am and what i have done.

I'm sure that was crushing and demotivating.  But this is actually great!  You learned more about error and religion than most people ever get the opportunity to experience, and those are valuable lessons.  And your "religion" and "way of life" fell entirely to pieces because they were wrong, and you learned your way past that set of errors that you were born into.  This too is great, because when all of your wrong beliefs have been destroyed, the emptiness which is left provides an opportunity to gradually rebuild something much more correct.

I would urge you mostly to have patience with this process of rebuilding a more correct understanding.  It's the sort of thing that should justifiably take a long time.  One of the core things many of us find most disconcerting is "not knowing" answers to important questions.  The not-knowing can be so uncomfortable that this is what drives many people to seek the simplistic comfort of easy and wrong answers.  Like, "God tells me what to do!" or "This book has all the answers!" or "I'm certain there is no God!"  But you've seen the easy-answer path.  You know it doesn't work out.  So now try the hard path, and be willing to accept the internalized unknown while you gradually fill in the things you can know or understand.
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July 14, 2014, 02:32:17 PM
Reply #26

Felidae

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Narratively speaking, you're in a good place for things to get better right now... though as always, that's probably less a comfort than it might be(since reality can function on narrative causality but doesn't always do so automatically). Hope you find the answers you seek and a life that's closer to what you want. No need to feel bad about having to work at mcdonalds currently... a lot of people are in a bad position right now*insert rant about capitalism here*. Depression sucks.

The question of god is one that is best answered individually and often doesn't seem to end up in nearly the same place one starts from, but whatever the real answer is or whatever answer you choose to believe in as most likely, you are an individual being with a (relatively) free mind in a large and mysterious world where anything can happen. Once you get past the veneer of a gray reality that this society tries to force one to live in, there is more wonder and horror than anyone can easily conceive in this world and no need to limit yourself to any of the standards of others to exactly what point in that one lives on. Become a real life supervillain if you really want to(not entirely suggesting this, just a possible option as part of the general point).

July 15, 2014, 09:57:15 AM
Reply #27

supadude

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Kobok, you are one of the few people i have ever met who "is always right" moreso than i am hahah.    But i have always had the folly of childish ideals, After all its gods fault I'm not a millionare yet so wtf.

Everything is cool Estatikos, but all i did on my birthday was game out on black ops zombies eating tacos.  :cool:

And felldae, I'm only the supervilllain of veritas. :wink:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 02:55:42 PM by supadude »
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August 03, 2014, 09:58:26 PM
Reply #28

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I still hold that if there was no God. I am no longer bound by the ideal of what is right and wrong. Therefore, nothing I do is wrong no matter how much it seems wrong to others, It wouldn't matter to me because to be frank I will suffer no ultimate consequence. Maybe end up in jail and die a bloody way but boy I would have had lots of fun and felt totally free before that came to pass.  My only limit would be my own imagination and people who wanted to stop me. 
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August 05, 2014, 04:40:06 PM
Reply #29

supadude

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 I sort of unbound in that way as well shadow. But, out of respect for life and humanity i bind myself by the virtue of empathy and compassion. Empathy because i know what it is like to be harmed, and compassion to not wish it upon my fellow man. Those simple truths are godless and are universal. In the end, for humanity to prevail we must all recognise these things as vital to our evolution to a higher state of existence and our survival as a species.
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