Ask any question about Qigong or Yoga.

[Koujiryuu]

I will do my best to answer it. I'm sure others will too. 

I think I made a thread like this in the past, but it died. Feel free to ask anything at all about these subjects, and I'll see what I can come up with.

[mystic]

An AMA about Qi Gong or Yoga?

Now that's a good opportunity for anyone to get some clarification on concepts!

I hope members take advantage of this! Great idea!

[RanmaBushiko]

Hmmm... ok then.  How does one normally achieve the Golden Body state, and what other states are there?

[Koujiryuu]

Hmmm... ok then.  How does one normally achieve the Golden Body state, and what other states are there?

I think mystic might be more qualified to answer this one than me.

The books I have by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming don't talk about the body really achieving states or anything like that, more of an overall progression of a skillset (for example, Iron Body before Brain/Marrow Washing in Qigong: The Secret of Youth).

The only one I'm really aware of is the "Crystal Body", which is just another word for the immortal spiritual body, this one is obtained by doing the Microcosmic Orbit for a very long time, and is mentioned in The Secret of the Golden Flower by Lu Tzu.

[mystic]

Hmmm... ok then.  How does one normally achieve the Golden Body state, and what other states are there?

I've never heard of the golden body state? Light body? Sure. Golden Embryo? Absolutely. But that's a new one.

Where did you hear about this state? Can you refer to something (like any text) that may mention it? Do you know if it is an improper translation of a different state?

That'd help out tremendously in trying to figure out what you mean...

[RanmaBushiko]

Mind_bender mentioned it to me, for a name used for states that come from Daoist and Bhuddhist meditation, and he mentioned some of the techniques I don't give out without a very good reason resemble one of those three states, Mystic.

I was curious about how deep Koujiryuu knew his stuff for the more estoric stuff, and if he ever really tried to work out the deepest secrets like I did, to be honest.  No offense meant, and it's why I edited the post.

Edit:  Write a post at 4 in the morning, and see how easy it is to be polite!

[mystic]

The only comparable description I can come up with is not something we refer to the Golden State. It's first Jhana and it sounds like a visual representation of first jhana.

That said, I wouldn't consider it the golden state per se.

Understand that in Chinese cultivation, gold is huge, but it is a reference to jing that has been refined through meditation during the development of the lower dan tian. That is the gold. In addition to seeing that state in first jhana, from my personal experience, I've seen:

1. White light (purification of mind)
2. Internal and external transformation

The above are the most immediate things I have experienced during the state. I can't say if it was golden because entering first jhana, you are drawn to the area of concentration. In the daoist cultivation, it is lower dan tian. In Indian cultivation that emphasize vipassana, you can also enter the state through concentration on the point between the nose and the upper lip.

Hell, I entered first jhana on a thought (get me out of here! and who am I).

One caution about first jhana (especially in some systems) is that first jhana is somewhat incomplete. Yes at its start is a pull toward the point of concentration, but it is also incomplete because it begets further refining. To further remain in the heart to transform who you are inside and out. It's sobering, but it is only the start of things.

So if mind_bender and myself are referring to the same thing as first jhana, and you've experienced first jhana, then at the time you don't necessarily need any other practice. Refine that! Enter the state for longer periods, and so on.

You'll realize you get the kundalini and bla bla bla.

Hope it helps

[Mind_Bender]

Tibetan Buddhists call it the Rainbow Body, but yes, it's the mystic state where you become a being of light through cultivation. I mistakingly called it the Golden Bell, but I realize the Golden Bell is referring to the Golden Bell Covering which refers to advanced or more time consuming Iron Body (although with Golden Bell your bones become like 'steel wrapped in cotton' and your body like an elastic yet resilient shield and weapon where with Iron Body, well, you become like iron - one is soft(ish) the other hard).

[mystic]

In traditional daoist cultivation (and I don't mean qi gong), the general accepted rule is

No one discusses iron / golden anything until you can at least be in jhana 1 for two hours. What a lot of people describe is just mere conditioning of skin / bones. That's not golden or iron. Just conditioning. And any person can do that.

The strength comes when reality is not. And when that happens, a lot changes

The light / rainbow body is the end of the road. That's after the cultivation, the jhanas, bla bla bla. It means you're done here and you're not coming back. One of my teachers saw it once during his 20 years in China with Shifu Jiang.

[Shinichi]

I'll bite.

Yoga has a state where the Nadis, the meridian system, becomes completely purified. Nadi Sodhan. Yogic literature covers this quite extensively, and there are very good explanations for it right here on Veritas too.

What's the Qi Gong take on this achievement? Does it happen when the microcosmic orbit is permanently opened? Does it happen on the 12 Meridians instead of the 8 Vessels? Is it considered a relevant achievement, or just something that happens?

This is considered a very important achievement in Yoga, but I've never really found much on it in my Qi Gong studies.



~:Shin:~

[Mind_Bender]

From a martial perspective, years of I Chuan and other specified qigong lead to the Golden Bell Covering, where 'Covering' is in reference to a supposed golden light around your body because your channels are clear and your body is vibrating at Earth's frequency making it easier to absorb qi from the Sun. It has nothing to do with ascension or enlightenment, just raw physical power (Iron Body) or a softer power (Golden Bell Covering). I was never taught the deeper alchemical aspects just the martial application (which doesn't mean I have achieved Golden Bell Covering but it is a practice from my old Bagua lineage).

[mystic]

I don't want to sound frank when I say this, but this is speaking from a very different daoist perspective that does not align with the popular qi gong movement that has even permeated China as the pinnacle of cultivation.

From that perspective, what you described is not necessarily Golden Bell covering nor is it Iron Gong either. I recall a very gifted healer who does specialize in gong related to the sun that can produce some amazing results. I've not seen it permeate many other practices nor have I seen it in the deeper levels of yi quan. From that perspective, I would like to ask if your teacher has integrated some different practices to enrich his system because that may be the the case. However, the description of nei dan or even damo longmen pai, it's a different bag of tea.

Personally, the practice doesn't make too much sense. Why do you need to imagine golden light around your body? It's a natural by product of actually sitting in stillness! The nadis opening the kundalini and so on happen on its own when you actually sit and the mind is focused on one thing. Or to turn a phrase, when the mind uses the mind to escape from the mind itself.

There's absolutely zero need for anything else because when everything is open, balanced, and the dan tian is full, things happen. Clarity happens. Insight happens and the mind is refined. That's why the errant visualization makes zero sense from that perspective. Nor is it ascension either. It's actually sitting down, shutting up and actually practicing. 

Don't knock actual meditation. You're not in any gong fu until you can sit. And that's the low down.

Mind_Bender if you wanna chat about it, we can do it in PM I don't necessarily wanna tangent from the AMA

[Mindlessinvalid]

I'm not regular with my practice of meditation but I want to get into Neigong because I'd like to believe that by the time I have gained any tangible results the personality flaws I haven't already been able to dissolve will be ironed out by the practice. Are there any methods (not specifically relating to Neigong) that I could use to improve my personal integrity?

(lack of) Diligence is a weakness of mine that I want to overcome, but it's been strangling me since my early teenage years.

[Shinichi]

Are there any methods (not specifically relating to Neigong) that I could use to improve my personal integrity?

It isn't a Neigong specific thing, but you could always use the Introspection and Soul Mirror stuff from the IIH. You don't even need to apply elemental theory to it, because basic character development is a rather simple thing. Just introspect to think about things that prevent you from being the person you want to be ("vices"), write them down, figure out why they hold influence over you and then remedy the situation. Aside from the Conscious exercises in step one, I think I recall step two discusses autosuggestion and similar means of working on the soul mirrors.



~:Shin:~

[mystic]

I'm not regular with my practice of meditation but I want to get into Neigong because I'd like to believe that by the time I have gained any tangible results the personality flaws I haven't already been able to dissolve will be ironed out by the practice. Are there any methods (not specifically relating to Neigong) that I could use to improve my personal integrity?

(lack of) Diligence is a weakness of mine that I want to overcome, but it's been strangling me since my early teenage years.

It won't be.

That's not the purpose of most practices that focuses on nei gong cultivation. From a strict context, you learn the meditation, the proper breathing to fill the dan tian, the ability to separate yin and yang chi, but the purposes of that isn't for enriching an individual's life.

In fact, if I can honestly say, part of the issues that anyone has to experience prior to practice will be magnified during the practice. We go long periods without a lot of things to be honest and after it's said and done either you fulfill the points of achievement or you won't.

Personally, I think whatever issues a person has should be resolved prior to the practice. Probably an easier way to help personal integrity would be to honestly practice vipassana. I'd also ask why diligence is a weakness and what are you trying to overcome? In fact, why overcome it? What's the purpose in that?

Mindless what's the soul mirror? I'm not sure I'm familiar with the practice. I'm curious about it though