Author Topic: Believe.  (Read 5222 times)

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November 15, 2013, 03:40:22 PM
Reply #15

Feint

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Like I said, it was a matter of opinion. Thanks Rhetorices for the response. I just didn't think about it that way. Who ever gave me -3 rep, it is okay with me if you feel the need to make me feel bad for contributing to a great topic.

November 15, 2013, 11:38:00 PM
Reply #16

Mind_Bender

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If you believe in something it is true for you. If you do not believe in something it either doesn't exist (to you) or is rejected from your frame of understanding in one way or another. On the other hand, if something is a fact, no matter what you believe and how much you reject it and tell it to 'go away,' it is ever present and will 'keep you down' until you accept it as truth.

I personally don't see belief as a theory but a grounding in utilization of concepts we do not understand, where something being factual, literally beyond belief, is also a grounding in the utilization of concepts, only now they are not merely concepts but fundamental truths that cannot be ignored- it works with or without your consent.

You can run from your beliefs and change them willy-nilly (in a chaos magic sense), and although you can run from the truth it will always present itself as a brick wall or melting tar- until you admit it's there you will never break down the wall or free yourself from the mire, you will be continuously stuck sinking in gooey desperation smashing your lovely head against the wall.

I usually don't like using religiously oriented quotes, but I find this one quite true and rewarding (after I've paid my dues and subdued my demons, that is), "The truth will set you free." Now, on what that truth is, I'll leave you with a short answer:

???
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

December 09, 2013, 05:49:57 AM
Reply #17

Shadowx089

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It seems clear to me that belief has ground rules (requirements) that need to be followed to be functional in reality.

For a Christian this is like having the spirit with you and also having no doubt when you go to pray over someone for a healing. Many peoples beliefs begin to fail at intense moments like that and doubt creeps in.

Yet a person that has been healing other through God or God through him, may easily fail at walking on water even if he has no doubt that he can. I often wonder that maybe the necessity of the action may need to be required before one begins to believe they can do it. As in, if there is no reason for you to be walking on water, then no amount of belief will let you walk on water, just like flying.

So when it comes to believing i think the purpose and function your intended actions dictate weather or not your belief will have substance toward it.
Comfort of the Lord, comforted by God.
If nothing existed but the Source and the Source - Created everything - Is the Creation from the Source? - If the Creation can behold intelligence - Then does the Source also have intelligence? - After all - The Source was far more than its Creation.

December 09, 2013, 08:56:36 AM
Reply #18

Enchia

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The thing with believe is that it has the potential to express willpower and it should be judged with that in mind. Because it can be an expression of willpower it also has the limitations of the will.
Meaning that it can only do what the will can do. If you can't do it with a spell then you can't do it with believe, basically.

December 09, 2013, 09:26:01 AM
Reply #19

Shadowx089

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I agree willpower has to be part of the criteria for belief to have substance in reality.

In fact I think both are equally important to have any function. For without believing, your Willpower is barred in its potential and the same goes in reverse if you have no willpower your belief is barred from its potential. 

However, I don't think a single person alone, no matter how hard they try with great willpower and belief can have any substance to reality without another criteria to be fulfilled first.

After all the world was not created by us, so therefore this reality is not governed by us and another force that dictates it must be present that determines what happens and when it is okay to happened, in response to our willpower and belief.
Comfort of the Lord, comforted by God.
If nothing existed but the Source and the Source - Created everything - Is the Creation from the Source? - If the Creation can behold intelligence - Then does the Source also have intelligence? - After all - The Source was far more than its Creation.

December 09, 2013, 09:36:46 AM
Reply #20

Enchia

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After all the world was not created by us, so therefore this reality is not governed by us and another force that dictates it must be present that determines what happens and when it is okay to happened, in response to our willpower and belief.

If you want to put your god into the equation then you could if that makes sense to you. However it is not always possible to pinpoint why some spells do not work and claiming therefore that it is because of your god might seem like an answer but it is not per se. In fact I would argue that it could be a very limiting practice because instead of trying to find a solution to the problem it is blamed on your god and your responsibility and learning potential is bypassed and it doesn't help the development of your skills.

December 09, 2013, 01:10:01 PM
Reply #21

Mind_Bender

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There is a fine line between belief and reality, but it seems if enough people believe in something it can become real, to a degree. Like gods for certain people. Zeus may not be real, but people who believe in Zeus and sacrifice to him may see all sorts of weather miracles and find inner strength, when they are really just connecting to the elements and an inner power. But they use Zeus because they do not have the confidence (subconsciously most likely) to directly effect the elements and call forth inner strength. I think belief helps us understand strange realities and give it a face and name we can utilize to our advantage.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

December 09, 2013, 05:50:55 PM
Reply #22

Shadowx089

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After all the world was not created by us, so therefore this reality is not governed by us and another force that dictates it must be present that determines what happens and when it is okay to happened, in response to our willpower and belief.

If you want to put your god into the equation then you could if that makes sense to you. However it is not always possible to pinpoint why some spells do not work and claiming therefore that it is because of your god might seem like an answer but it is not per se. In fact I would argue that it could be a very limiting practice because instead of trying to find a solution to the problem it is blamed on your god and your responsibility and learning potential is bypassed and it doesn't help the development of your skills.

Actually, it doesn't matter if you believe in a God or Gods, the undisputed factor is this world and universe was not created by us. We were in fact created by the same thing that created everything else. Therefore whatever caused all of existence is the governing ruler of what is allowed to become reality. God, The Nothing, Gods, A True Paradox. The Big Bang. If one is the source then the source is the governing ruler of all existence and it has dictated how and what is possible to become real and what stays fantasy.

I would never say God is a limiting factor in training and learning why something doesn't work. You use the excuse that someone will say, "God doesn't allow it and so we should give up".  This is not the case for Christians, we are children of God who is the source of all existence to us and who is are Father and therefore nothing is impossible for us. What we fail to achieve is merely a puzzle as to why we lack the ability to do so. It is our Father who teaches us and without doubt any obstacle we face can be overcomes with his help. - Therefore your subjective argument is false when directed towards me. It however, may be true for other people.
Comfort of the Lord, comforted by God.
If nothing existed but the Source and the Source - Created everything - Is the Creation from the Source? - If the Creation can behold intelligence - Then does the Source also have intelligence? - After all - The Source was far more than its Creation.

December 09, 2013, 09:05:15 PM
Reply #23

Mind_Bender

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What we fail to achieve is merely a puzzle as to why we lack the ability to do so.

I think belief helps us manage this. I also think it is actually quite a beautiful quote in that it helps us reflect where too much belief is fantasy and not enough leads to lack, of results or whatever.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."