Author Topic: Do you think society is breaking down with its lack of spirituality ?  (Read 18047 times)

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September 15, 2013, 12:05:02 PM
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Mars

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Do you not think that society is breaking down with its lack of spirituality, not religion persay but lack of personal spirituality, the majority of society is solely bothered on consumerism and their own selfish needs ? do you think this is true ? discuss ?
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

September 15, 2013, 12:55:30 PM
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Mind_Bender

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Not just lack but also a misunderstanding and abuse of traditional principles, such as charging over $100 for a phone conversation, or $800 an hour for a session. I think spiritual education should be at an affordable price for everyone, a sliding scale, or free. The condemnation of one spiritual path over another, or condemnation for lack of belief, causes the most harm in my opinion. It casts people against people and all but annihilates an education and new relationships.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

September 15, 2013, 04:30:53 PM
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Hellblazer

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I think the reason is because all systems are failing. Spirituality is a monopoly, governments are corrupt, the schools systems turn out idiots, and people are getting tired of being force to do something they don't want/need. This is why society is failing.

September 15, 2013, 07:36:11 PM
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Constructman

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Do you not think that society is breaking down with its lack of spirituality, not religion persay but lack of personal spirituality, the majority of society is solely bothered on consumerism and their own selfish needs ? do you think this is true ? discuss ?

From my point of view, it really depends on the individual's idea of an "ideal society". What would you compare today's society to? It is better/worse compared to what? As well, it also depends on what side of the story you look at. On the one hand, wealth and health are greater than ever before worldwide (if only marginally), technology is advancing at greater than ever before speeds, people are starting to become more aware and accepting of other cultures, we are becoming more unified as a global people (if slowly), etc. On the other hand, you could say that the wealthy and healthy are so at the expense of others (Ex. The factories where your clothes are made), technology is turning us into lazy bums, increased contact with other cultures is causing cultural homogenization, said homogenized culture is dragging moral values down, etc. Whether today's society is building up or breaking down depends on your point of view.

Personally, I'm sort of on the fence; I'd rather live in the here and now rather than even as close as 50 years ago (if I was born then, I'd be smack dab in the Cultural Revolution)  However, I've also noted that 50 years ago, it was a much simpler time than today, where societal values have become somewhat mired (COUGHMTVCOUGH). While I feel we're improving in some areas, there are other areas that are rapidly degrading. I sort of feel like that while less extremely heinous acts are being committed by the general populace (racism in the 60s), spciety as a whole is slowly slipping down in terms of moral standards (compare popular tv shows today with those during the 50s/60s). Perhaps its today's pop culture and what people define as cool and acceptable?

Note: I was focusing on north american society in this post, as it's the culture I have the most experience with. It's gonna be different for other parts of the world.

September 15, 2013, 11:07:28 PM
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EllyEve

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Do you not think that society is breaking down with its lack of spirituality, not religion persay but lack of personal spirituality, the majority of society is solely bothered on consumerism and their own selfish needs ? do you think this is true ? discuss ?

It might have been true back in the 1990's for the Western world. Between 9/11, The War of Terror, and the 2008 economic bust, though, I would think that the majority of society kind of has this Memento Mori cultural imprint. The generation that wouldn't even remember all that, wouldn't be spoiled at least not the way I was spoiled as a 90's kid. I'm not sure how much the new Social Justice Movement has affected "official" channels, but between Tumblr and that feminist review of Avatar: Legend of Aang, morality has become less proscriptive. There are 11 to 15 year olds who know the concept and philosophy behind "political correctness" beyond that Thou Must Stick To Alternatives For Politically Incorrect Words That Mean The Same Thing As The Words You Were Going To Use Anyway. They know the word "kyriarchy" and "cultural appropriation". Considering the demographic, yeah, this will be another great ideal that sets fire to the hearts and minds of people and burns out in post-millennial embarrassment of pubescent naivety... but compared to previous generations, I think everybody thinks much, much deeper.

Society is breaking down because it's broken. That's apparently the only way that (some) people will discover personal spirituality. And, hey, perhaps other people pushed the same way will lose personal spirituality... but consumerism, selfishness? Outdated. If people are selfish, it's because they're in a position where their survival is threatened and their instincts take over--not because they're spoiled. If they're consumerist and escapist, it's because they're desperate to be happy--not because society has this locked feedback loop telling them that is the only happiness. They might not be spiritual, but it's impossible to be ignorant. Fewer people have the stability and privilege to be. This isn't the 90's anymore.

September 16, 2013, 07:54:27 PM
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Steve

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Individuals can be intelligent. Groups are stupid.

I think that the failing comes from simple logistics. Humans have a limit to how much we can care. The larger our groups grow, the smaller the ratio becomes between how much we can care versus how much there is to care about. It can become overwhelming, and so a lot of people stop thinking about things that are too far beyond their normal, every day lives; after all, it is incredibly stupid and irrational to believe that we alone can care about all 7 billion other humans on this planet (plus animals and plants and soil, air, water systems besides!). Plus, factor in group-think and you quickly realize that any sufficiently large enough group of people are pretty much going to be doomed from a "personal development" perspective.

With theoretical hard numbers: if a human being is only capable of caring for up to 100 people at any given time, throwing them into a city of 1 million is not going to help. Humans are limited, while humanity keeps growing and growing. We seem to tend to forget that each of us is just one human out of humanity, with all of our lack-of-grandeur that this encompasses.

That being said, the last statistics I saw (a couple of years ago) showed that north americans were increasingly taking up "spiritualistic" paths these days.

~Steve
Mastery does not occur when you've performed a feat once or twice. Instead, it comes after years of training, when you realize that you no longer notice when you're performing a feat which used to require so much effort. Even walking takes years of training for a human: why not everything else?

September 17, 2013, 08:11:39 PM
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Silver_Archer

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The world is not one society, it is many societies. While it is true that some of them are currently in various stages of turmoil, I think it is safe to say that by and large, human societies are doing better right now than they did in the past. Also, turmoil and strife is not necessarily bad for a society in the long run (although obviously they cause suffering in the short run.) To quote a line from an old movie The Third Man:

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"You know what the fellow said in Italy, for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
<Forg> Everything is adjustable when you have a saw.

September 18, 2013, 09:49:55 PM
Reply #7

The magicist

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Quote from: Mars
Do you not think that society is breaking down with its lack of spirituality, not religion persay but lack of personal spirituality, the majority of society is solely bothered on consumerism and their own selfish needs ? do you think this is true ? discuss ?
What do you mean by spirituality? Do you just mean our belief in the paranormal? If so then I don't think this is the main problem with society. However, I think our lack of paranormal belief stems mainly from materialism, which is a very major problem with our society. But even materialism has it roots in the cardinal problem: vice.
I hold the existence of nine virtues, the mainly pertinent one here being the one I call Mysticism (very different from the veritas definition of mysticism (union with the higher self (in which I don't even believe))). I can't really explain this very well, let alone prove it, so don't expect this to sound like a sane person wrote it.
You know that pleasure people get from doing things like throwing the word "up" after verbs for no apparent reason, (not that there's anything immoral about grammatical errors), or from dancing to the kind of music that I think is called pop music, or from entertaining extremely morbid thoughts? This pleasure is evil.
I don't know if I'm making the slightest bit of sense here, but if by lack of spirituality you mean our liking for this pleasure, then this is certainly one of the main reasons society is self-destructing. To entertain this pleasure constitutes a lack of Mysticism. To get an idea of what Mysticism is, play the following notes on a piano or other such instrument:
E.. (go up for this note, not down) A.. G A... C, B, G, A.. G A...
Assuming I didn't mistype that tune, this should instill an emotion, and you should be able to see now where I derived the term "Mysticism". The virtue of Mysticism is, in short, learning to appreciate this emotion and despise the one discussed earlier, and to act in accord with the mindset implied with the emotion instilled by the tune.
I know I probably just made a fool out of myself and out of my beliefs. Please pardon the unmagnanimity of my writing.
Do not become comfortable with the purposeless pattern of everyday life, for the life of Piety is full of adventure.
Do not indulge in morbid or otherwise abhorrent thoughts, for a mindset of Mysticism confers a far superior pleasure.
Do not fear to sacrifice a small good to accomplish a larger one, for the ends justify the means.
Do not obsess with material things, for only the immaterial exis

September 19, 2013, 05:34:27 AM
Reply #8

Mars

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Quote from: Mars
Do you not think that society is breaking down with its lack of spirituality, not religion persay but lack of personal spirituality, the majority of society is solely bothered on consumerism and their own selfish needs ? do you think this is true ? discuss ?
What do you mean by spirituality? Do you just mean our belief in the paranormal? If so then I don't think this is the main problem with society. However, I think our lack of paranormal belief stems mainly from materialism, which is a very major problem with our society. But even materialism has it roots in the cardinal problem: vice.
I hold the existence of nine virtues, the mainly pertinent one here being the one I call Mysticism (very different from the veritas definition of mysticism (union with the higher self (in which I don't even believe))). I can't really explain this very well, let alone prove it, so don't expect this to sound like a sane person wrote it.
You know that pleasure people get from doing things like throwing the word "up" after verbs for no apparent reason, (not that there's anything immoral about grammatical errors), or from dancing to the kind of music that I think is called pop music, or from entertaining extremely morbid thoughts? This pleasure is evil.
I don't know if I'm making the slightest bit of sense here, but if by lack of spirituality you mean our liking for this pleasure, then this is certainly one of the main reasons society is self-destructing. To entertain this pleasure constitutes a lack of Mysticism. To get an idea of what Mysticism is, play the following notes on a piano or other such instrument:
E.. (go up for this note, not down) A.. G A... C, B, G, A.. G A...
Assuming I didn't mistype that tune, this should instill an emotion, and you should be able to see now where I derived the term "Mysticism". The virtue of Mysticism is, in short, learning to appreciate this emotion and despise the one discussed earlier, and to act in accord with the mindset implied with the emotion instilled by the tune.
I know I probably just made a fool out of myself and out of my beliefs. Please pardon the unmagnanimity of my writing.

I know where your coming from yeah, you see the problem where i live the UK, is the intense materialism. Its all me me me now now now gime gimme gimme money money money, nothing after this life spend all now live the way you want. If this is the only life we have or nothing after ? why waste it making us feel ill and franticly pacing to get material objects? especially if we aren't going to remember anything in the void ? The UK used to be 70% religious, now it has dropped to 49% according to secular recent studies. During the last 40 years britian was a lot better off, a lot of old people of the last great generation deserve respect and dont get it. They insult older peoples religions, and I cannot go bye and tell my spiritual/religious perspective without being utterly ridiculed and assumed as stupid. Even though a lot of the people insulting me had lower science grades in college and math grades.

Crime here is at an all time high, people sue eachother left right and center over nothing, police and institutions cover up mistakes and problems, I think this is due to lack of spirituality.
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

September 19, 2013, 12:58:49 PM
Reply #9

Mind_Bender

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I don't think it's a lack of spirituality but a lack of acceptence in general. Anti-theists would chuckle at and want to destroy this website for it's theological and magical minded material. On the other hand you have spiritual and religious zealots that would rather see you be tortured in some horrendous after life.

I think if we all took a few basic gems from elementary school, the Bible, and Buddha- BE KIND TO OTHERS- we would live in a saner and kinder world.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

September 20, 2013, 02:09:28 AM
Reply #10

The magicist

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Quote from: Mars
I know where your coming from yeah, you see the problem where i live the UK, is the intense materialism. Its all me me me now now now gime gimme gimme money money money, nothing after this life spend all now live the way you want. If this is the only life we have or nothing after ? why waste it making us feel ill and franticly pacing to get material objects? especially if we aren't going to remember anything in the void ? The UK used to be 70% religious, now it has dropped to 49% according to secular recent studies. During the last 40 years britian was a lot better off, a lot of old people of the last great generation deserve respect and dont get it. They insult older peoples religions, and I cannot go bye and tell my spiritual/religious perspective without being utterly ridiculed and assumed as stupid. Even though a lot of the people insulting me had lower science grades in college and math grades.
Love the way you expressed this. In the end, you touched on an interesting point: virtue (in this case, lack of what you're calling materialism) confers power of every sort (such as intelligence (thus the better grades)).
To answer your question above (the one about "the only life we have"), I am a firm believer in the immortality of the soul, though I am at a loss to prove it.
Quote from: Mind_Bender
I don't think it's a lack of spirituality but a lack of acceptence in general. Anti-theists would chuckle at and want to destroy this website for it's theological and magical minded material. On the other hand you have spiritual and religious zealots that would rather see you be tortured in some horrendous after life.
Not to disagree with anything you say, but in my experience, theists would be more hostile to this website than atheists.
Quote from: Mind_Bender
I think if we all took a few basic gems from elementary school, the Bible, and Buddha- BE KIND TO OTHERS- we would live in a saner and kinder world.
I agree here to, except that I was not taught to be kind to others in elementary school. I was taught to shut my mouth and keep all moral objections to the teachers' extremely unjust (for reasons of both justice and mercy) punishments to myself.
Do not become comfortable with the purposeless pattern of everyday life, for the life of Piety is full of adventure.
Do not indulge in morbid or otherwise abhorrent thoughts, for a mindset of Mysticism confers a far superior pleasure.
Do not fear to sacrifice a small good to accomplish a larger one, for the ends justify the means.
Do not obsess with material things, for only the immaterial exis

September 20, 2013, 01:19:34 PM
Reply #11

Mind_Bender

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Not to disagree with anything you say, but in my experience, theists would be more hostile to this website than atheists.

I know what you are saying, I was just using Veritas as an example. Just to point out, I am specifically talking about anti-theists and not atheists as a whole.

Quote
I agree here to, except that I was not taught to be kind to others in elementary school. I was taught to shut my mouth and keep all moral objections to the teachers' extremely unjust (for reasons of both justice and mercy) punishments to myself.

That's horrible, I'm sorry about that. Even though some teachers  could be really mean and heartless, I was usually taught to respect others and be nice no matter what (of course I was picked on and stood up for myself, so I had to be the nice and accepting one... I love common sense).
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

September 20, 2013, 09:16:37 PM
Reply #12

The magicist

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Quote from: Mind_Bender
That's horrible, I'm sorry about that.
Don't be. Without it I would likely have become secularized.
Do not become comfortable with the purposeless pattern of everyday life, for the life of Piety is full of adventure.
Do not indulge in morbid or otherwise abhorrent thoughts, for a mindset of Mysticism confers a far superior pleasure.
Do not fear to sacrifice a small good to accomplish a larger one, for the ends justify the means.
Do not obsess with material things, for only the immaterial exis

October 01, 2013, 02:07:39 PM
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Shadowx089

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Posted by: The magician: Not to disagree with anything you say, but in my experience, theists would be more hostile to this website than atheists.

Not to be rude, but that's kinda rude to just pick on a world view like that and I disagree, with that, i generally think if we are going to say such a thing, then people of all types will disagree 50:50 of the time, just to be fair, considering I'm on the theist side, and although i get a lot of criticism for my thoughts here and made fun of. I have a okay understanding that these other things that we study here exist to certain degrees and Respect it all.

Now for the main topic: I would say yes ultimately but there is a reason of course why too, if i had to guess that the world is doing, i would complain that the educational system completely avoids topic of the spirit compared the material world. Its their job to make you know earthly knowledge not other worldly knowledge. I also think school really focus on relativism on a lot of subjects and this causes a lot of people to not want to focus on the subject of spirituality and focus on what they can see as real.







Comfort of the Lord, comforted by God.
If nothing existed but the Source and the Source - Created everything - Is the Creation from the Source? - If the Creation can behold intelligence - Then does the Source also have intelligence? - After all - The Source was far more than its Creation.

October 01, 2013, 09:17:12 PM
Reply #14

The magicist

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Quote from: Shadowx089
Not to be rude, but that's kinda rude to just pick on a world view like that and I disagree, with that, i generally think if we are going to say such a thing, then people of all types will disagree 50:50 of the time, just to be fair, considering I'm on the theist side, and although i get a lot of criticism for my thoughts here and made fun of.
I'm not being rude, or picking on theism. In fact, I'm a theist too.
Do not become comfortable with the purposeless pattern of everyday life, for the life of Piety is full of adventure.
Do not indulge in morbid or otherwise abhorrent thoughts, for a mindset of Mysticism confers a far superior pleasure.
Do not fear to sacrifice a small good to accomplish a larger one, for the ends justify the means.
Do not obsess with material things, for only the immaterial exis