Author Topic: Proof for life after death ? / Afterlife Theories  (Read 4083 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

September 13, 2013, 11:38:47 AM
Read 4083 times

Mars

  • A Familiar Feature

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 229
  • Karma:
    7
  • Personal Text
    Radonis
    • View Profile
What proof is there for life after death ? Do you believe in it ? and what would it be like in your opinion ? Could there be an afterlife without some kind of deity ?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 11:07:54 AM by Mars »
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

September 13, 2013, 01:06:28 PM
Reply #1

Mind_Bender

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1135
  • Karma:
    89
  • Personal Text
    Deus ex Machina
    • View Profile
I don't think their is proof but I believe in it. I think for those that don't reincarnate on the physical plane go to a sort of waiting rom or what not before the next life. I also think some people just deteriorate into oblivion because a lack of belief, 'spiritual' discipline or their thoughts and emotions are too scattered. I don't think a deity is necesarry because the realm of the deceased would be just a place like Arizona is a place. There is no need for a deity to reside over said place just like there is no reason a deity needs to reside over our plane of existence; I understand the afterlife as an etheric playground or dungeon depending on the individual, but they are only rewarded or damned because of their own positive or negative outlook and mental, emotional and energetic outflow and inflow.
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

September 13, 2013, 04:03:36 PM
Reply #2

Mars

  • A Familiar Feature

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 229
  • Karma:
    7
  • Personal Text
    Radonis
    • View Profile
I also think some people just deteriorate into oblivion because a lack of belief, 'spiritual' discipline

Yes I'd agree with that, I think over attatchment to life can cause people to be anchored in oblivion or atleast a realm of inert energy thats so 'dense' with it they just cannot comprehend things.

I personally believe putting a diety aside, our afterlife is like our own small reality in the astral plane, when we see relatives we are just travelling to their small reality and likewise they you. They see what they want to see or they reincarnate if they wish. Some decide to watch over the universe some decided to focus on their own reality. Some I'd imagine would even choose eternal sleep. My interpretation of hell is just I imagine a region of the void and the persons mind where they are so angry or twisted that they go to an area where likewise energy resides, where its just anger. Hell being that its like being angry in a dark pit, but its not really hell persay, its just a bad part of the void.

I personally believe that if there is the God I believe in, he will reside over all those who believe or wish to find him through multiple reincarnations or through the void in a series of connected realities or planes. I think anyway ...

Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

September 13, 2013, 08:25:02 PM
Reply #3

Mind_Bender

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1135
  • Karma:
    89
  • Personal Text
    Deus ex Machina
    • View Profile
I used to be a pretty hard polytheist where different gods or goddesses would rule over different pre-life and afterlife realms. Other deities would serve specific functions of said world, like Charon, the Greek Ferryman of the Dead, or Thoth and Maat, the Egyptian God of Medicine and Wisdom and his consort (or sister), the Goddess of Truth and Benevolence who would weigh your soul against the Feather of Truth, where Anubis would write your fate on a scroll then proceed to guide you to the Elysian Fields or wherever you are heading, and I think this can be very real for worshippers of said deities because their consciousness is so tied to the belief and reality of them. We can already project powerfully here on earth, imagine the potential in an etheric realm!

Have you ever thought that this might be the afterlife?
"Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
Your reality is only spirit.
Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

"As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

"...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

"Everybody laughs the same language."

September 14, 2013, 10:41:08 AM
Reply #4

Mars

  • A Familiar Feature

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 229
  • Karma:
    7
  • Personal Text
    Radonis
    • View Profile
I used to be a pretty hard polytheist where different gods or goddesses would rule over different pre-life and afterlife realms. Other deities would serve specific functions of said world, like Charon, the Greek Ferryman of the Dead, or Thoth and Maat, the Egyptian God of Medicine and Wisdom and his consort (or sister), the Goddess of Truth and Benevolence who would weigh your soul against the Feather of Truth, where Anubis would write your fate on a scroll then proceed to guide you to the Elysian Fields or wherever you are heading, and I think this can be very real for worshippers of said deities because their consciousness is so tied to the belief and reality of them. We can already project powerfully here on earth, imagine the potential in an etheric realm!

Have you ever thought that this might be the afterlife?

I mean I'm all for polytheism and could subscribe to that theory its a nice and reasonable one but I guess personally there would have to be one ultimate power or one lead God or atleast that the universe itself was concious, but yeah I could reasonably see that many people have their own realms or go to the realms of their personal Gods. I hope it goes that way in a sense it would be the best option for everyone.

Im am sort of a Universalist Christian with my own theory on theism(But then again even unorthodox christians think im a bit far, I guess you could call me a Universalist but my chosen path is to follow Jesus as my path to God).
I'm using the theory in my fictional fantasy book I'm writing. It's sort of a Monopolythiesm  :P if there's is such a thing.
  • You have the ultimate God which I refer to Deus, He can incarnate himself in any manner he wishes or put his essence into a living soul ("Jesus and Buddha (Physical), Wotan, Zeus, Iuppeter, Judeo-Christian/God/Allah (Astral Incarnations) )
  • You have what I call the Zenin(Romaji for Ancestor or those before) who are humans who were so inspirational and great at what they did they almost became the incarnation of what they were or almost Gods (Hercules becomes a God/Hero of strength ect)
  • Then you have Daemons or Angels, some who are self perpetuated and created after God created the universe, they sprang out of nowhere themselves, and those created by the lead God (Mars, Archangel Michael, Minerva, Pluto, Azrael, Athena) Daemons are not necessarily good or evil, I'm just using a greek term for spirit. Then there can be twisted Daemons or Angels, who for some reasons unknown to us are full of anger and appear horrible and evil either through their own choice or what they have experienced.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 12:02:03 PM by Mars »
Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

September 14, 2013, 01:13:29 PM
Reply #5

Mind_Bender

  • Posts By Osmosis

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 1135
  • Karma:
    89
  • Personal Text
    Deus ex Machina
    • View Profile
    • You have the ultimate God which I refer to Deus, He can incarnate himself in any manner he wishes or put his essence into a living soul ("Jesus and Buddha (Physical), Wotan, Zeus, Iuppeter, Judeo-Christian/God/Allah (Astral Incarnations) )
    • You have what I call the Zenin(Romaji for Ancestor or those before) who are humans who were so inspirational and great at what they did they almost became the incarnation of what they were or almost Gods (Hercules becomes a God/Hero of strength ect)
    • Then you have Daemons or Angels, some who are self perpetuated and created after God created the universe, they sprang out of nowhere themselves, and those created by the lead God (Mars, Archangel Michael, Minerva, Pluto, Azrael, Athena) Daemons are not necessarily good or evil, I'm just using a greek term for spirit. Then there can be twisted Daemons or Angels, who for some reasons unknown to us are full of anger and appear horrible and evil either through their own choice or what they have experienced.

    That's interesting how you break down the levels of God as one being into several distinct aspects, it's like your own intuitive and simplified version of the Qabala.

    The theory I find hard to believe but rather interesting is the Shingon buddhist idea that the universe is God, the planets are its atoms, etc, basically making this universe but a small part of said God. The God looks exactly like us, and is us for all intents and purposes, only MASSIVE. The mantras, meditations and practices seek to unite them with the vibration of this being so they may return to a proper working order within this being until they achieve a united state of mind and being. They are a Large Vehicle (Mahayana) Buddhist sect that believes hard work and spiritual discipline can get you enlightened in a single lifetime. I just find it very interesting.

    From my interpretation, I like to use Anton Lavey's theory (most likely gleaned from Hinduism) where there is an Age of Fire, where God is outside of us and an Age of Ice, where God is within us. I believe right now is an Age of Ice, where God must be solidified within the human psyche and experience, not outside. This would mean our perceptions have the power to create and destroy at will when we reach a powerful enough state of existence where we choose an afterlife, reincarnation or further seeking the mysteries of the universe. Since I do not know if their is a God, I do go path as humbly as I can and am doing the work of God without knowing, not because I am prophet but because maybe that's what we're all doing, God's Work whether we know it or not. That may be true, sometimes I wish it were, but I just don't know so I stick to my experiences and keep experimenting with different paths. I don't know where I am going, but I believe 'it's the journey not the destination' that we should focus on. But that's me.
    "Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
    Your reality is only spirit.
    Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

    "As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

    "...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

    "Everybody laughs the same language."

    September 14, 2013, 02:27:52 PM
    Reply #6

    Mars

    • A Familiar Feature

    • Offline
    • ***

    • 229
    • Karma:
      7
    • Personal Text
      Radonis
      • View Profile
    No I think its very interesting, I do not know much of Qabalah except it featured in 18th Century European Christian Hermetiscm movement I'll look into it. I agree the journey is very important, I've said before I think if there is a God hes fascinated with the story, and the best part of the story rarely is the ending or the beginning, its the bits in-between. I think our existence is a story without end, a book with the last page torn out. I think it is an honorable thing to go about things without believing in a God. To do things for the better of humanity without expecting some reward at the end is admirable. I believe in God not because I want a reward, well I do want eternal life. But I believe in a God as I can't see a way of a universe could exist without one. Well also I feel like when I searched for him I found him even before I searched for him he sent signs and I believe God spoke to me, not literally but through emotion, but I wont share if you wont ask, I know it can be seen as delusional or insane, I wholeheartedly accept that but It felt real to me.

    I originally was an Athiest and strong one at that but I converted when I studied science which was unusual to my Atheist teacher. I often tried to look further ahead in my lessons and go beyond what was required I really enjoyed science, but I couldn't help but feel that a universe creating itself was an illogical explanation to me, I know it could have created itself. But I never got how a world of logical science would accept a logical fallacy or universe creating itself.

    What interests me is that there are many NDE's/OBE's around the world and they are extremely similar in almost all details, there is so much variation in the human brain I find it hard to believe NDE's are fake, I think it must be the brain uploading the concious to the soul in some way. What made me think my current philosophy is that all details are the same, except round the world people would see their deities, its like they were going to their own religious realities, I just choose jesus as my path to God as I find it hard to believe Christianity would have become so powerful in its earlier years so quickly, and so many people follow this man unless he had some sort of otherworldly power. Yet again I have other personal reasons which I shouldn't really share as It would seem ranty and like I would be converting. I don't want to seem like I'm converting anyone, I am enjoying this debate on philosophy and I think that everyone religion/ spiritual outlook must have some truth to it, and that we as a young species are all different and have our own ways of doing things.
    Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
    Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

    September 14, 2013, 03:13:22 PM
    Reply #7

    Mind_Bender

    • Posts By Osmosis

    • Offline
    • *****

    • 1135
    • Karma:
      89
    • Personal Text
      Deus ex Machina
      • View Profile
    I find no fault, delusion or insanity in someone who feels a real and tangible expression of Divine Love. When I was a theist I felt it quite regularly, at least when I brought the angels and goddesses to mind and heart through magic or even just conversation. I have set myself up on a 33 day path of the Qliphoth (reverse Qabalistic tree) which might, most likely, has to do with my current non-belief in a creator and all powerful God. Not because I am being tricked or seduced by demons nor am I angry at God/dess, but I am learning to solidify my consciousness within my personal thought realms and energetic associations. It's what the Temple of Set calls 'isolate intelligence' or 'Remanifestation (Xepera)' (immortality, basically). I think there are forces outside of us that are quite ancient and powerful beyond the conception of time and space or space-time, but the consciousness has left those energies to be with us, to be us, but their nebulous and numinous existence can still be tapped into. As a self-proclaimed chaos magician I call this energy the Chaos Current, or Current of Infinite Potential. You may call it God and Christ Consciousness and others my refer to it as Brahma or the Law of Attraction. It's all the same to me, the only difference is I take self-consciousness out of it so it is pure, primal unrefined power and potential- or the essence of magic and being.

    I find it interesting you found God through science even though you were an atheist (I am actually interested to hear why if you are willing to explain). I have read of this phenomena before, and I can honestly understand. When I was very into my Patron Goddess and her entourage (deities in general) I couldn't understand how scientists, especially biologists, neurologists, physicists and astronomers couldn't see a Divine connection and creation. It's funny how we change sometimes. It's not that I am an atheist, it's kind of an in between state of theism and atheism, that's why in the 'Why Did God Create Us?' thread I mention the word 'paradox', because my mind and practices are quite odd yet they seem to hold some very obvious truths for me and others. I guess my path is intuition and the furthering of all life (physical and spiritual) through a somewhat nihilistic and anarchistic mindset. That is why I don't really believe in anything. Next week my mind and heart might change, but that's okay. Now I know not God and the Angels Grace, but maybe soon I will feel my Goddess's Love and Embrace once again in a way that I can express love and devotion towards, who knows?

    If you would care to explain your personal insights and perceptions on Near Death Experiences and Out of Body Experiences that would be very interesting. To note, the way we are conversing I would not think you are trying to convert, so do not worry about that. The only time I talk against 'God' or feel someone is trying to convert me against my will is when people push their beliefs by stating others are wrong and they are right above and beyond- I don't care what spiritual or mundane path you follow, as soon as the conversation turns to blame and accusations over silly disagreements I either leave or express myself in the most positive way I can. Those attitudes are harmful not only to the person being (somewhat) victimized by hurtful words and accusations, but the person throwing insults is harming themselves by not allowing others with different beliefs into their hearts. Maybe they don't see it this way, but I enjoy an orgy of different views, expressions and experiences. You are not like that even though your conviction and faith is like hardened steel (at least from my perspective), so anything you feel you want to share, I will gladly read with no judgement only my own interpretation of the causes and conditions for my personal journey.

    I have had a few Out of Body Experiences but never a near death one. My thoughts on Near Death Experiences falls along the lines of my beliefs in the afterlife, only you are not quite dead yet. Your physically body may have shut down, relaxing the hold on your astral shell, so you can briefly traverse the worlds. There are many explanations for the voices, family members and white light, but as we have both realized, we can never really know until we are there... and 'there' means dead. WHen it comes to Out of Body Experiences, I think it the same process takes place as with the Near Death Experience only that you are in conscious control of your mind and astral shell. I call it an astral 'shell' because it contains your thought body, at least from my viewpoint.

    If you love angels as I do and theories on creation, I would imagine you would be very intrigued with the Qabala.
    "Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
    Your reality is only spirit.
    Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

    "As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

    "...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

    "Everybody laughs the same language."

    September 14, 2013, 03:18:15 PM
    Reply #8

    Mars

    • A Familiar Feature

    • Offline
    • ***

    • 229
    • Karma:
      7
    • Personal Text
      Radonis
      • View Profile
    Sure I would love to chat about my opinions and learn more about such things. I'd imagine it would be a very long conversation though, would you wish to converse on skype sometime  ? or In another thread or something ? , I'd imagine the conversation would digress onto other related topics ;p
    « Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 03:30:01 PM by Mars »
    Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn. -CS Lewis
    Cultivation to the mind is as necessary as food to the body. - Marcus T Cicero

    September 14, 2013, 03:37:33 PM
    Reply #9

    Mind_Bender

    • Posts By Osmosis

    • Offline
    • *****

    • 1135
    • Karma:
      89
    • Personal Text
      Deus ex Machina
      • View Profile
    I do not have skype, but we could create another thread or you could private message me, whatever you prefer.
    "Spirit is in a state of grace forever.
    Your reality is only spirit.
    Therefore you are in a state of grace forever."

    "As relfections of the Source, we are little gods."

    "...part of me doesn't want to believe that auto-eroticism while crushing on a doodle (sigil) could manifest a check in the mail box, but hey, it did."

    "Everybody laughs the same language."

    January 21, 2014, 07:40:23 PM
    Reply #10

    JustinReeves

    • A Veritas Regular

    • Offline
    • **

    • 55
    • Karma:
      6
      • View Profile
    I believe for their to be an afterlife. My belief comes from a variety of things including astral projection, NDE's, and mediumship.

    January 27, 2014, 01:05:57 PM
    Reply #11

    Shadowx089

    • Veritas Furniture

    • Offline
    • ****
    • Regular Member

    • 409
    • Karma:
      -6
    • Personal Text
      Regular Member
      • View Profile
    1. What proof is there for life after death ?
    2. Do you believe in it ?
    3. What would it be like in your opinion ?
    4. Could there be an afterlife without some kind of deity ?

    1. Proof...hmm...If spiritual beings exist then life continues when the flesh dies, for it is said that we are indeed spiritual beings bound to flesh. In this regard a new question develops, do we truly die?

    2. I do believe in it, it only makes sense if you have been able to acknowledge spiritual beings or self.

    3.If we are spiritual beings bound to flesh, I would have to say it would be similar to how we feel now. We are experiencing our spiritual self all the time and if anything it may be odd or relieving to be rid of the decaying flesh.

    4. No, by all indications existence comes from a single Source. Therefore, the Source is the governing creator of all existence. The source decides the governing law and rules and allowances to occur. The Source is the deity that rules all realms and all creation in all ways.

    Comfort of the Lord, comforted by God.
    If nothing existed but the Source and the Source - Created everything - Is the Creation from the Source? - If the Creation can behold intelligence - Then does the Source also have intelligence? - After all - The Source was far more than its Creation.