Author Topic: my own jing practice  (Read 9907 times)

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April 27, 2012, 08:09:49 PM
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naimihero

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here i will explain the system, the breathing method, the accumulation techniques, and the forms that i use for using jing.

so, lets start from the beggining, what is jing?
 jing is called the sexual force, but it is more than just that. the first thing you should know about jing is that it is not an energy type in the same way that jing is, so it is difficult, if not impossible, to use in the same way. jing is not meant to be accumulated from the air around is, but is more from food. instead of accumulating in the dian tien, it accumulates in the hardest part of us, the bones. so what is jing? I like the call it the "physical-physical force"

the idea to accumulate jing is to imagine it just appearing inside your bones. i have a suspicion that your body uses food as a source, since at times when i go into starvation phases i always run out of jing in a few days. it is also impacted severly by sexual activity. the breathing technique that i came up with involves using only your nose, with your tongue glued to the roof of your mouth, then while exhaling, again from the nose, you create a kind of friction inside your throat. there should be an audible (hhhhh) sound. you want to compress your jing as much as possible, since that allows you the most control later, and also because your bones are the only container that you have for jing.

now, to actually using the jing: it seems that you can use it for a wide range of physical abilities, such as enhancing strength, speed, stretch, balance, reaction time, endurance, and other things. the key is to understand that what you are manipulating is a force, not an energy type. one of the more useful,well, uses that i found is an ability to move your body using the jing in your bones, to a small degree, so that the pressure is taken off your muscles. this is because if you are increasing your strength, you will still put a great strain in your muscles.

the visualisation for jing manipulation should be different according to each person, but it should be in the bones, with the force, in effect or otherwise, reaching outide. the jing itself remains in the bones. i generally imagine that it is like a chamber in my bones filled witrh golden, well, cider or something. not a fluid, but not a complete solid.

one more use for jing is for changing the body. this comes in the form of (reinforcement, transformation, manipulation, materialization) or even in the idea of creating or destroying muscles, fat, or bone. you can use jing to destroy or to make.


April 28, 2012, 05:00:52 AM
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Akenu

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Thank you for sharing this.

I wanted to try it so I used your description as manual while throwing knives. I noticed that I cannot keep my common accuracy while forcing jing into my muscles. It was much harder to make knives hit with the blade, too.

More importantly there were more visible and deep marks in the wooden plank I used as a target even without hitting it with a blade. One of the knives bounced back and got stuck in the ground just near my leg. Damn, I didn't even see how the knife got there, I could hardly react if it was directed at my leg.

Damn, I even damaged one of my knives when throwing and I don't use cheap knives that are easy to break.

So, here is the conclusion: Forcing jing into muscles does boost speed and strength. This state is hard to maintain and control, though, at least for me.

April 28, 2012, 05:53:21 AM
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mystic

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that's not jing...partially it is jing but there is far more to it than that especially when dealing with the transformation of jing to usable chi in ones practices. sadly there is only so much I can really say about jing because my teachers indicated not to say much.
What I can say is jing is a necessary ingredient in the creation of dan tian. However, to place it merely as sexual essence negates a few details. For instance, it isn't just sex that burns jing. It is actually living out of balance, constant stress, and discord that also burns jing. While jing can be derived from sexual energy, it doesn't start or end there. When one gets into the transformation of jing -> usable chi (for dan tian preparation or something), methods are quite unique. Depending on practices, the bone marrow washing that you loosely describe doesn't need much visualization at all. It occurs almost on its own.
secondly the method will lead to several different issues. remember that zealous visualization leads to yang chi running wild causing chi stagnation. That is counterproductive for any practice.
While the prevalent opinion is that once you lose jing you lose it forever, that isn't necessarily true. Several masters accumulate jing very often. But those methods I do not know.

My suggestion
Don't try this. It will lead to problems - at least from yang chi running a muck leading to chi stagnation. Don't try to understand jing. It can be explained a million times, but just like you can explain what an apple tastes like, it is nothing like experiencing jing for yourself in your practices. Just keep it safe, jing in the grand scheme of things does not matter if you are practicing properly. For scholarly jokes and giggles it is fun to discuss, but the goal is to experience it and use it

April 28, 2012, 07:03:47 AM
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Akenu

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Question is whether you are not over-exaggerating things, mystic.
It is true that energetic practice can lead into problems when not practiced properly, but isn't it one of the reasons why we are here? It rather sounds like a way how to keep secrets.

Now, you said that partially it is jing. Now to that was really interesting, can you please share a little more about this? For sake of people not getting hurt :).

April 28, 2012, 10:00:28 AM
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mystic

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Question is whether you are not over-exaggerating things, mystic.
It is true that energetic practice can lead into problems when not practiced properly, but isn't it one of the reasons why we are here? It rather sounds like a way how to keep secrets.

Now, you said that partially it is jing. Now to that was really interesting, can you please share a little more about this? For sake of people not getting hurt :).

I mean you can believe what you really want to believe. I am not going to try and fight or stop your opinion of my thoughts on the subject. If you wish to do the method, go ahead. But the same exercise has been done ad nauseum since the underground days and it didn't yield many results. In fact, skullkid (of kidojo) had an offshoot of the "method" in question, but that's not manipulation of jing to begin with. That is an expression of lack of jing as indicated through bone strength due to subtle relationship jing (prenatal chi) has with kidneys, growth and development. That is not the derivation of jing in our cultivation methodology nor any other paths in either indian or daoist systems (except the pop dao systems).

Secondly, even if I had the blessing to teach nei gong and other traditions, chances are I still wouldn't give any information here. The karma created from listing information given to me by my masters are kept in secret for a reason. If you really want to learn, you will find a master and a course. It is relatively easy to find, especially since some masters are offering training for students in the west. And if you can't afford that, performing the yin xian fa of the ling bao tradition is good enough for the purposes most people have. However, if a person wants to enter the path for whatever reason, you will have to pay to train.

Third, the point regarding practices and discussion seems a bit jumbled. Can you clarify on what you mean?

Finally, regarding jing, prenatal chi. Google it. It gives a practical understanding of what I am referring to, at least in a scholarly endeavor. I will not go into practice. Consequentially it doesn't matter. Terms do not matter. Just practice a good method of meditation. Like vipassana or zazen. In many ways, it isn't necessary to do things further. And if you do, see point two

April 28, 2012, 11:01:58 AM
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MariusAnil

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Any of y'all heard of berzerkergang? it sounds a bit similar though alot softer then berzerkergang. Jing has just spiked my interest I might try along with this Isometric contraction routine I'm about to start.
Life is energy with purpose.

April 28, 2012, 12:56:25 PM
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Akenu

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@mystic: Sorry, but it really sounds just like a try to keep secret to strengthen position of your teacher's lineage.
In Magick, Golden Dawn had this mysterious cover, too, till Crowley revealed their secret materials. GD fell into bits but their teachings still live and are publicly available.
This site was underground, too, but it got opened for public, as well. Things change over time and I believe that teachings of your masters will be publicly available, too, sooner or later. It would be a logical step if we consider that China is oppressing any esoteric teachings.

@MariusAnil: Isometric contraction routine? Sounds like some exercises to develop muscle memory.
Quote from: Wikipedia
Muscle memory has been used synonymously with motor learning, which is a form of procedural memory that involves consolidating a specific motor task into memory through repetition. When a movement is repeated over time, a long-term muscle memory is created for that task, eventually allowing it to be performed without conscious effort. This process decreases the need for attention and creates maximum efficiency within the motor and memory systems. Examples of muscle memory are found in many everyday activities that become automatic and improve with practice, such as riding a bicycle, typing on a keyboard, typing in a PIN, playing a melody or phrase on a musical instrument, playing video games,[1] or performing different algorithms for a puzzle cube.

April 28, 2012, 01:55:20 PM
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MariusAnil

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No its more like either trying to move something you could never possibly move(big tree, 50,000lb block of concrete) or pitting muscles in against each other in various positions and poses to develop more conscious contractile power.
 
An example would be putting your right arm in a bicep curl position and putting your left on top of the right wrist and pushing down as hard as you can and pulling up as hard as you can with your bicep for a "repitition" of 6 seconds then relaxing and doing deep yogi cleansing breaths. There are various positions for every part of your body. You could also use rope or chain with the same idea(search Alexander Zass or Joe Greenstein "The Mighty Atom")

I'm going to do this type of exercise 5 days a week then do regular heavy lifting absolute strength protocols on the weekend.

EDIT: By the way muscles don't have memory your brain does :P
Life is energy with purpose.

April 28, 2012, 02:56:23 PM
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mystic

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@mystic: Sorry, but it really sounds just like a try to keep secret to strengthen position of your teacher's lineage.
In Magick, Golden Dawn had this mysterious cover, too, till Crowley revealed their secret materials. GD fell into bits but their teachings still live and are publicly available.
This site was underground, too, but it got opened for public, as well. Things change over time and I believe that teachings of your masters will be publicly available, too, sooner or later. It would be a logical step if we consider that China is oppressing any esoteric teachings.



Not at all. The current trends of the Chinese masters of the world has changed drastically in a little over the 7 years. Very large forms of communication has led to people specifically in the west performing things that was only relegated to Chinese/Asian culture. To argue that this is some conspiracy to keep things secret while neglecting the role globalization has on practices is absurd and a bit laughable. Heck, even Kosta commented on this, and that was in 2000!

Let's get some things straight

Are there several teachers of Chinese philosophy right now? More now than it was when I started in 1999 that's for sure. Where sites like this (aka the underground and ki dojo) were the main sites posting erroneous information. Frankly, Chinese or Indian methods (vaja especially here, but also very good buddhism) is not posted online. Methods are not given in a book and by in large, if you want to learn you pay to learn and see the master on their own terms with an open heart. When the blessed dissemination occurs, you typically do not share the information out of respect to the master. Respect is a very important thing. While many masters are willing to share with westerners when they are of a higher level, that doesn't mean they are authorities to teach the method. And when they are authorities to teach the method, that still doesn't mean the methodology will be posted online for the result of the karma the wide spread information will share.

This is not magick, don't compare it to the likes of Aleister Crowley who had more physical and psychological issues than Charles Manson. The comparison isn't apt, it doesn't make you sound philosophical either.

I repeat if you want to learn, join liping shifu's retreat in China. Join other master's retreats. But at the end of the day, the description of such things are immaterial to the practice. And that is the goal. To practice a method that isn't watered down or made up.

As for the body, best consult the magus of java. There's a fantastic discussion about the issues of visualization as well as in liping's forum run by Richard Liao and Kathy Li (very good students and friends of my teacher). The main thing is this - it's not as if I'm dangling some carrot to say I'l only tell you so much. My hands are tied. And even though they are tied, I am showing you how to get the information. Join a retreat if you really want to know. I mean if you truly want to know, you will see masters on their terms

The next retreat should be in the winter. I suggest you join the facebook Tao Pathways page and buy the ling bao. From there save up for the retreat. That's my honest recommendation. But the knowledge of any tradition is not public. And for good reason. So while globalization has made practice easier, it is not as if master's will post methods of cultivation online.

April 28, 2012, 03:21:50 PM
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MariusAnil

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Great post mystic! I won't mess with jing unless I get proper instruction.
Life is energy with purpose.

April 28, 2012, 11:55:02 PM
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Akenu

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@mystic: There are more ways how to learn, not everyone needs your incarnate masters. What quite bothered me was your comparison of Crowley to Charles Manson, you are either a big mouth or you don't know either of them.

Many terrific stories were around Aleister Crowley and some of them were true, as well. He was a drug addict, he was quite mad, and very "expressive" when it comes to personal life.
Charles Manson is nothing but animal having nothing common with human being. Did you think that his punishment (imprisonment) made him better? Did you think that his state improved even a little bit? Not even chance, he doesn't understand why he is imprisoned and he will never be able to actually figure out what it means and why it is bad what he did. He acted as a piece of cr*p in this life and he will be a true bag of cr*ps in his next life. It would be really interesting to see how Karma works, especially in his case.

April 29, 2012, 08:52:06 AM
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MariusAnil

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*grins at akenu* you are not god. heh heh Charles Manson never actually killed anybody. What he did was bad but do not pretend to be judge jury and executioner to his fate as if you know. Those in the depths of darkness often have the greatest potential to do good....Its just they don't often choose to heh heh. Do you see the world as black and white? All I see are shades of grey.

Yes masters are not the only way to learn but they are the safest.
Life is energy with purpose.

April 29, 2012, 03:18:58 PM
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naimihero

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No its more like either trying to move something you could never possibly move(big tree, 50,000lb block of concrete) or pitting muscles in against each other in various positions and poses to develop more conscious contractile power.
 
An example would be putting your right arm in a bicep curl position and putting your left on top of the right wrist and pushing down as hard as you can and pulling up as hard as you can with your bicep for a "repitition" of 6 seconds then relaxing and doing deep yogi cleansing breaths. There are various positions for every part of your body. You could also use rope or chain with the same idea(search Alexander Zass or Joe Greenstein "The Mighty Atom")

I'm going to do this type of exercise 5 days a week then do regular heavy lifting absolute strength protocols on the weekend.

EDIT: By the way muscles don't have memory your brain does :P
please keep me updated on how that goes, i am very interested

April 29, 2012, 05:26:17 PM
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MariusAnil

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will do I'll make a thread in the coming weeks on the subject in the martial arts subsection.
Life is energy with purpose.

April 30, 2012, 12:12:32 AM
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Akenu

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EDIT: By the way muscles don't have memory your brain does :P

It's just called that way :D.

*grins at akenu* you are not god. heh heh Charles Manson never actually killed anybody. What he did was bad but do not pretend to be judge jury and executioner to his fate as if you know. Those in the depths of darkness often have the greatest potential to do good....Its just they don't often choose to heh heh. Do you see the world as black and white? All I see are shades of grey.

Yes masters are not the only way to learn but they are the safest.

According to official reports he sent his "students" to kill people.
I don't see world as black and white, still I prefer Aleister's shade of gray over Charles' shade of grey ;-).
And... I am not God, true indeed :D